- Location
- Storm Cleanup Tassie Au
Do you guys do reports or is that only for the consultants over their?
Here's one of mine.
What do you think?
Here's one of mine.
What do you think?
tree reports
- Thread starter RobJMurf
- Start date
I often do similar style reports, which basically summarize some simple points about straightforward tree issues that you would usually verbalize with a client - "the gum tree isn't looking so good, check out the cavities there, that limb will be next, without looking closer at the tree and doing some calculations about wood strength etc, I'd say take it out". Often for local government or property owners who want something more tangible to help make a decision. One guy wanted a 'report' to show to his wife, because she wouldn't believe him, and didn't have time to meet with me to discuss a skanky hemlock that was clearly on the way out.
Your report seems simple and effective for a simple situation like this. Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
Your report seems simple and effective for a simple situation like this. Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
- Location
- Storm Cleanup Tassie Au
Thanks Mate appreciate the feedback. Yes it sounds like you do similar stuff to.Enough info so they get the point ,not to much to make their head spin.
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
[ QUOTE ]
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
No background section--when and why did previous limbs fail?
no disclaimer--there is a whole lot you do not knwo.
observations weak from the ground--need aerial inspection to get useful data. there are vague assumptions made that need backup, or drop them.
this report is similar to many reports done in the US--quick and dirty and lacking the details that make the condemnation credible.
the whole thing looks like pruning every 3 years or so could make this tree's risk acceptable, but due to negligence is being wasted. sean is this type of rubbish as typical in oz as it is here?
no disclaimer--there is a whole lot you do not knwo.
observations weak from the ground--need aerial inspection to get useful data. there are vague assumptions made that need backup, or drop them.
this report is similar to many reports done in the US--quick and dirty and lacking the details that make the condemnation credible.
the whole thing looks like pruning every 3 years or so could make this tree's risk acceptable, but due to negligence is being wasted. sean is this type of rubbish as typical in oz as it is here?
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh of course, most of our reports just say" G'day mate, i reckon that tree's a real little beauty"
[ QUOTE ]
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh of course, most of our reports just say" G'day mate, i reckon that tree's a real little beauty"
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
[ QUOTE ]
sean is this type of rubbish as typical in oz as it is here?
[/ QUOTE ]
Guy, I don't know about the quality of reporting in the US but there are problems within this report some of which you have highlighted that are common to many.
Given that we may not have the entire report available....writing anything that is poorly worded, loose and ill defined, turning supposition into assertion would make life difficult for the report writer and undermine any value their report might have in my experience.
There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options.
A report does not need to be 30 pages long, it can be three or four, but those three or four pages need to meet the basic requirements described above.
Writing is a skill, just like climbing, pruning or cabling and there are many pitfalls we may encounter in the process of developing and improving that skill.
sean is this type of rubbish as typical in oz as it is here?
[/ QUOTE ]
Guy, I don't know about the quality of reporting in the US but there are problems within this report some of which you have highlighted that are common to many.
Given that we may not have the entire report available....writing anything that is poorly worded, loose and ill defined, turning supposition into assertion would make life difficult for the report writer and undermine any value their report might have in my experience.
There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options.
A report does not need to be 30 pages long, it can be three or four, but those three or four pages need to meet the basic requirements described above.
Writing is a skill, just like climbing, pruning or cabling and there are many pitfalls we may encounter in the process of developing and improving that skill.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes, management options; gotta watch out for making unqualified recommendations...
"A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports" is a very good resource; don't know if it is sold in Australia.
O and hey rob don't take offense ok? A lot of the report is just fine, and i do not know the expectations of your client. Some here might accept it as is, but many muni/govt folks would require more facts to base a decision on.
At any rate, that tree does not look Urgent, unless a major cyclone is on the way.
and even then a branch failure on the wires seems possible but not probable.
There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options.
[/ QUOTE ]Yes, management options; gotta watch out for making unqualified recommendations...
"A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports" is a very good resource; don't know if it is sold in Australia.
O and hey rob don't take offense ok? A lot of the report is just fine, and i do not know the expectations of your client. Some here might accept it as is, but many muni/govt folks would require more facts to base a decision on.
At any rate, that tree does not look Urgent, unless a major cyclone is on the way.
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
[ QUOTE ]
"A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports" is a very good resource; don't know if it is sold in Australia.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes that was one I was thinking about, it can be bought through ISAAC.
"A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports" is a very good resource; don't know if it is sold in Australia.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes that was one I was thinking about, it can be bought through ISAAC.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Sean Freeman-
You said, "There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options. "
Can you offer any names for such resources, please.
Thanks.
You said, "There are quite good resources out there to aid someone starting out in report writing, how to structure the report, how to set out the limitations, the methodology, the objectives, and how to ensure that through the report each of those elements is adequately covered through observations, discussion, conclusions and recommendations or management options. "
Can you offer any names for such resources, please.
Thanks.
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Arboriculture and the Law By Victor D Merullo and Micheal J Valentine (This is a great resource to help consultants understand the rights and requirements of property ownership)
A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports by Christine A Keefer (This really is a great book covers all aspects of the process of putting formal/and informal reports together)
Example Reports for Consulting Arborists an ASCA publication has practice reports from students of ASCA academy
The Consultants Legal Guide By Elaine Biech
Standards of Professional Practice another ASCA publication lays out ethical principles.
Beyond the specifics of Arboriculture there are many good texts on writing effective professional reports.
A Consultant's Guide to Writing Effective Reports by Christine A Keefer (This really is a great book covers all aspects of the process of putting formal/and informal reports together)
Example Reports for Consulting Arborists an ASCA publication has practice reports from students of ASCA academy
The Consultants Legal Guide By Elaine Biech
Standards of Professional Practice another ASCA publication lays out ethical principles.
Beyond the specifics of Arboriculture there are many good texts on writing effective professional reports.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh of course, most of our reports just say" G'day mate, i reckon that tree's a real little beauty"
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy boys, you know we all love you. I think short reports like this have a place, like Rob says, not too much to make their head spin. More complex trees will require more complex disclaimers and investigations - big trees in decline because of development don't require a 5 page report and a 1/2 day climb to determine they're a risk to surrounding houses. Calling it rubbish is a bit much. Maybe there's more to it, or maybe there's just more money to be made by a consultant. . .
Anyway, go Australia - nice work at international softball championships.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not bad for Oz I reckon. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Well thanks for the glowing endorsement jeff_r
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh of course, most of our reports just say" G'day mate, i reckon that tree's a real little beauty"
[/ QUOTE ]
Easy boys, you know we all love you. I think short reports like this have a place, like Rob says, not too much to make their head spin. More complex trees will require more complex disclaimers and investigations - big trees in decline because of development don't require a 5 page report and a 1/2 day climb to determine they're a risk to surrounding houses. Calling it rubbish is a bit much. Maybe there's more to it, or maybe there's just more money to be made by a consultant. . .
Anyway, go Australia - nice work at international softball championships.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"More complex trees will require more complex disclaimers and investigations"
oversimplifying is not credible.
"big trees in decline because of development"
That is one robust-looking tree--what "decline" do you see?
"don't require a 5 page report"
true but an extra paragraph or two is needed
"and a 1/2 day climb"
good glory even an old fart like me would be up, down and all packed up in under 2 hours.
"to determine they're a risk to surrounding houses."
Duh...Risk is everywhere--the question is how much and what to do about it, and those opinions cannot be dashed off without looking and analyzing more closely.
It looks like a light reduction pruning and inspection every 2 years might be a reasonable option. If the assessor knows how a pole pruner is used that should be clear enough, IF the attachments pass the aerial inspection. If not, harder reduction or support may slide to the front of the table.
Hate to be a stickler but there you are.
oversimplifying is not credible.
"big trees in decline because of development"
That is one robust-looking tree--what "decline" do you see?
"don't require a 5 page report"
true but an extra paragraph or two is needed
"and a 1/2 day climb"
good glory even an old fart like me would be up, down and all packed up in under 2 hours.
"to determine they're a risk to surrounding houses."
Duh...Risk is everywhere--the question is how much and what to do about it, and those opinions cannot be dashed off without looking and analyzing more closely.
It looks like a light reduction pruning and inspection every 2 years might be a reasonable option. If the assessor knows how a pole pruner is used that should be clear enough, IF the attachments pass the aerial inspection. If not, harder reduction or support may slide to the front of the table.
Hate to be a stickler but there you are.
fair enough on all points, but getting all that in with an extra 1/2 paragraph will leave the same kind of holes you've already picked apart, even if you can write like Shakespeare, or Shigo.
Now, how much will you charge for the recommendations to retain the tree? Wonder how much Rob charged? Or would you recommend climbing and removing deadwood and inspect at the same time, then make the call? Good call. Get an extra 3 or 4 hundred out of the tree before it goes.
"Duh...Risk is everywhere--the question is how much and what to do about it, and those opinions cannot be dashed off without looking and analyzing more closely."
I don't see many gum trees here, but I do understand risk and hazards. But, we're talking about the format and appropriateness of this report, not the tree itself. (or at least that's what I thought) You're picking apart the report on things you see in the picture, of a tree in Australia, or maybe you're picking me apart on things you see in the picture? Either way, hope you're having fun.
Another simple recommendation for the report - save as a .pdf before sending to the client (or posting on the internet).
Now, how much will you charge for the recommendations to retain the tree? Wonder how much Rob charged? Or would you recommend climbing and removing deadwood and inspect at the same time, then make the call? Good call. Get an extra 3 or 4 hundred out of the tree before it goes.
"Duh...Risk is everywhere--the question is how much and what to do about it, and those opinions cannot be dashed off without looking and analyzing more closely."
I don't see many gum trees here, but I do understand risk and hazards. But, we're talking about the format and appropriateness of this report, not the tree itself. (or at least that's what I thought) You're picking apart the report on things you see in the picture, of a tree in Australia, or maybe you're picking me apart on things you see in the picture? Either way, hope you're having fun.
Another simple recommendation for the report - save as a .pdf before sending to the client (or posting on the internet).
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Guy and Sean- Thanks for the titles of those report writing and legal informational resources!
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Jeff_r I don't think Guy is having a go at you....I certainly was pulling your leg with my thanks comment
I do think we are talking about trees in general not and only making passing reference to some aspects of the tree in the report, because we all accept that we have not seen this particular tree.....however we do have the report.
I should have thanked the original poster for putting the report up and being prepared to face the slings and arrows.
All reports should be converted to pdf as you point out
I really think that what Guy is saying (and I totally agree with him) is that the more trees you assess and report on the less defect driven your assessments become, once you have been in a court room (eg;as an expert witness) you become acutely aware just how important every single written word is.
There is one more thing, its just a little thing....established trees, certainly those over 50yrs are only just beginning to make a significant contribution to carbon sequestration, they are just beginning to be capable of contributing to the provision of hollow habitat, they are making significant impacts on the local climate, the local water table, stormwater management, capture of airbourne particulate pollution, stablisation of soil structure.
Recognition of the enormous importance that large established trees play in the urban environment is essential in any report, failure to establish the increasing value of tree assets is a major omission.
I write a fair few tree risk assessment reports, and for my sins get to see the odd one or two written by others, generally I am not impressed by either the poor understanding of the difference between hazard and risk, or between established facts and unsupported assertions.
If trees were anywhere near as dangerous as some reports suggest we would be waist deep in failures and corpses.
I do think we are talking about trees in general not and only making passing reference to some aspects of the tree in the report, because we all accept that we have not seen this particular tree.....however we do have the report.
I should have thanked the original poster for putting the report up and being prepared to face the slings and arrows.
All reports should be converted to pdf as you point out
I really think that what Guy is saying (and I totally agree with him) is that the more trees you assess and report on the less defect driven your assessments become, once you have been in a court room (eg;as an expert witness) you become acutely aware just how important every single written word is.
There is one more thing, its just a little thing....established trees, certainly those over 50yrs are only just beginning to make a significant contribution to carbon sequestration, they are just beginning to be capable of contributing to the provision of hollow habitat, they are making significant impacts on the local climate, the local water table, stormwater management, capture of airbourne particulate pollution, stablisation of soil structure.
Recognition of the enormous importance that large established trees play in the urban environment is essential in any report, failure to establish the increasing value of tree assets is a major omission.
I write a fair few tree risk assessment reports, and for my sins get to see the odd one or two written by others, generally I am not impressed by either the poor understanding of the difference between hazard and risk, or between established facts and unsupported assertions.
If trees were anywhere near as dangerous as some reports suggest we would be waist deep in failures and corpses.
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
[ QUOTE ]
If trees were anywhere near as dangerous as some reports suggest we would be waist deep in failures and corpses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, that is a nightmare I have had. Waist deep in tree failures and corpses. It's like you have a window into my head movies.
After attending the ASCA academy and passing the post academy report, I decided to limit my report writing to the cases that were absolutely necessary. I am too freaked out about liability to put my name on anything those ASCA guys (wink wink, Guy) can tear apart in a courtroom setting.
I prefer to go with my gut, enormous as it is, and go with the phloem.
SZ
If trees were anywhere near as dangerous as some reports suggest we would be waist deep in failures and corpses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, that is a nightmare I have had. Waist deep in tree failures and corpses. It's like you have a window into my head movies.
After attending the ASCA academy and passing the post academy report, I decided to limit my report writing to the cases that were absolutely necessary. I am too freaked out about liability to put my name on anything those ASCA guys (wink wink, Guy) can tear apart in a courtroom setting.
I prefer to go with my gut, enormous as it is, and go with the phloem.
SZ
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
Guy I really dont care what certs you have, what your title is, or anything else. None of us without being there can say that "all that tree needs is to be pruned every three years", or "it could fail on the lines but its not probable." That is garbage. Get real dude. I saw some good sized cavities, which does make it more of a risk than a totally normal tree without cavities. Get real.
D.W.H
D.W.H
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
[ QUOTE ]
Waist deep in tree failures and corpses. It's like you have a window into my head movies
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I have re-read that and it sounds more like my last year at college come to think of it....
...the wasted corpses and failures bit anyhow
Waist deep in tree failures and corpses. It's like you have a window into my head movies
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I have re-read that and it sounds more like my last year at college come to think of it....
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
We would have been great friends in college.
SZ
SZ
New threads New posts
-
test
-
What's on your mind? TCI Magazine wants to know
- Started by Tree Care Industry Assoc.
- Replies: 9
-
Apr 09 (Free CEUs) & May 07 - 'Urban Forestry Today' Webcasts @ Noon (Eastern)- Started by UFT
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
