Tree Flex?

Hi Paolo

I just wondered if you can expand on the new ergonomic features of the harness for me. Obviously I'd hoped to get to play at the AA Cirencester gig, but that was not to be. If you remember we had a long discussion in Copenhagen at last years ETCC & I'm intrigued to here & see more of your creation based on your ideas as explained then.

I have in the early part of this year worked on a harness myself where the main goal was to reduce as much as possible the peak force points within the design of the harness, i.e. spreading the loading points & therefore the amount of p.s.i. at any one body point. The concept is very simple, getting the harness manufacturer to understand & create the concept is a different story. The whole idea is firmly on the backburner because of time constraints, finances & the need for custom equipment to be made rather than choosing from the vast array of harness components that already exist. I also feel that it would be indulging somewhat in a personal ideology for the masses & I really don't need that right now.

I think that the whole ergomonics issue will fall mostly on muffled ears (if you look at it across the whole industry). When the main stay of the industry, in the UK, are still battling with how to make very slight improvements to friction hitch functionality I find it difficult to believe that there will be mass movements trying to improve personal ergonomic challenges that we as tree climbers are beset with. I think that if one works with the sense that only those of high levels of experience or ability will be able to listen &amp; understand then the market place is a very limited one. The whole issue, if it <u>is</u> an issue for most, would require that firstly the individual is taken to a place where they can begin to understand the concept of body misalignment &amp; the woes that may follow because of it. They would then need to be coxed along the journey of personal physical realignment in their everyday life before it would have massive worth at the work place. You can then, if you choose, start to break down a days work into its component repetitive parts &amp; pay particular attention to altering these. Then approach manufacturers with the view of making our daily work tools ambidextrous! There really would be no end to where it may lead for the few seeking enlightenment, but the few seeking enlightenment are exactly that, the few.

I know that this post may sound very negative in it's content, (I believe it's realistic) but history dictates that you cannot drag anything kicking &amp; screaming into a new way of thinking or being. It has to be a long term goal to change peoples thought process &amp; actions &amp; that requires that one stands side by side carefully showing the way. The west worlds belief system is a fine example!

Best wishes
Nod
 
Nod,

Paolo will add his own comments I know.

Like any change, it takes one, then two, then twenty...on and on...until this 'sudden' change becomes normal. If the few are given options they can be a catalyst for change. Rather than waiting for government or regulatory forces to suggest change let's do it from the ground, or branches, up.

The awareness of ergonomics is starting in many different places. I've seen this at local arborist conferences. The organizers have had the insight to see that ergonomic issues are important and have gotten presenters with some arbo knowledge to do talks. These sessions have been filled to overflowing with the 'boots in the field'...climbers and groundies. The light is beginning to glow.
 
Hi Tom

I very much hope that it is the case that 'the light is beginning to glow'. Many years ago there was a campaign slogan to do with some environmental organisation, (I don't remember which or for what) that said "Think global, act local!" This truly is the way forward in engaging such topics that are far away for the masses. Or may be I'm wrong in my assumption that the topic is far from the masses?

Many thanks
Nod
 
Dear Nod

Thank you for your comments which we (I never advise on arborist health issues without consulting with Davina - a qualified and experienced fitness pro) have read thoroughly.

We believe (and regularly experience) that Arboriculture IS NOT populated mostly by people that couldn't care less about their professional health (let alone those in their care).

We believe Arboriculture is an industry and profession that is deserving of our committment to healthy and realistic change. We fully understand that it is a long slow process to encourage positive change. Treebuzz is just one small and worthy area that we can help to educate internationally with this issue. And we are happy for those whom the message is being absorbed.

We have knowledge that implies a duty of care to our fellow arborists. If only a handful of arborists welcome this knowledge and work more ergonomically, then it is worthwhile.

I wonder what we would have failed to learn from Shigo and Mattheck, if they ran back into their safe institutions and never said another word on trees? Not much probably. And only because of mis-guided opposition?

Mattheck and Shigo were trying to help trees. We are helping treeworkers. Obviously, there will be many that will not want to change. We ARE focusing our energy on those that want to learn. We HAVE made a lasting improvement to Arborists lives.

Is it really going to benefit Arborists if we give up on them as a lost cause?

Of course not.
 
Treejockey

No - I don't know what you mean? Perhaps you wouldn't mind spelling it out for me? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Paolo,

just let me check if I read you correctly:

You are saying that you are the ergonmics equivalent of Shigo or Matteck? That's quite a tall claim, to say the very least...

Could you please clarify? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
/forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif....Tut /forum/images/graemlins/shakinghead.gif I'm quite sure you know we were comparing implications Mark.


I am no ergonomics expert, and have never claimed to be.

Which is my whole point that I thought I'd made clear - It is the fitness knowledge and expertise of Davina Owen.

Nobody can credibly discuss training, health or ergonomic issues without being trained and experienced in that field (Even though some arb instructors still like to comment about something they know little about).

In addition to Davina's profile on our site, what isn't included, is the fact she has trained under the leading fitness professionals from USA, UK, NZ and OZ , and has clients that literally entrust her with their lives, some of which have complaints so rare that they are one of only two survivors! They themselves and their consultants credit Davina's skills and knowledge as the reason why they not only survive, but thrive! She is so busy she works 14 hour days in a local low population area. She has enough work for staff, but cannot find the right candidate with the correct skills, intuition, care and COMMITMENT. She certainly doesn't deserve mis-guided attitude; she is a highly respected professional.

I never post on training and health without her seeing and altering the post.

She doesn't really have much time for TreeBuzz (especially pathetic posts). But we will continue helping those that recognise the dangers, or already have MSDs.

If you want to attempt ridicule at that, be my guest, it won't detract from our work. I just think its a very sad attitude that I'm learning to accept..........
/forum/images/graemlins/hisboids.gif
 
Sorry Nod

Just found time to answer your original question about the harness design. Give me a call for more detail/justification etc. I did come looking for you with the harness at the show, but you had your head down with paying customers. The prototype is probably a little large for you.

After analising likely MSD issues with Dee 3 years ago, we looked at ways in which arborists could greatly reduce their risk of MSDs, with the least amount of change. These were the priorities:

No.1 was arborist awareness
No.2 was the harness, to hold the body as best possible in a practicable way.
No.3 was the use of powerful legs and buttocks in ascent (their natural function) rather than hands, arms, shoulders and back.
No.4 was correct alignment of all component parts of the Muscular-skeletal system during ascent.
No.5 was efficient work positioning, posture, stance, use of spurs and chainsaws in the tree.

The list goes on.

A suitable harness could not be found that was suitable for improving all the above points. The TreeFlex addresses all of the above, not least No.1, which is why we are discussing this!

The TreeFlex is the only harness (not quite) on the market, that meets all of the following requirements:

1. A sit harness designed to fit the human system in the most ergonomically efficient way.
2. Independant leg loops.
3. A front sliding bridge.
4. A waist attachment point designed to take a chest ascender.
5. A rear loop designed to hold a simple chest sling to hold the chest ascender (For The 'Frog' system of ascent, which is widely recognised as the most versatile and effective SRT ascent system).
6. A modular design to enable replacement of worn parts.
7. An effective adjustment system to gain the correct seated position for any size of climber.
8. A back pad that works at supporting the climber properly, whether sitting or standing on spurs.
9. A design than prevents the harness waist belt from riding up into the ribs.
10. A design that maintains a low centre of gravity with the sliding bridge.
11. Ergonmically designed gear loops that do not require too much twisting of the back and wrist to clip or unclip gear.
12. A centre back attachment point for easy clipping of the chainsaw, to ensure the weight is centrally loaded.
13. Karabiner slots for easy racking of gear/clipping the chainsaw high, including one at centre back.
14. active lining that stimulates blood circulation to the skin avoiding soreness, with high breathability for hot weather.
15. Strategically placed padding to seat the harness correctly and avoid discomfort.

A suitable harness that met these 15 points was a tall order, and unfortunately I couldn't find one. Which meant we had to design one and find someone to patent and manufacture it. It will also be available in three sizes.

I'm sure when you get to try a size small, you will really like it. The sizing is based on pelvis size, not waist, so purchasers don't have to worry about growing out of it.

Looking forward to having a chat!

Paolo.
 
7. An effective adjustment system to gain the correct seated position for any size of climber.



It will also be available in three sizes. /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Hi Rupe

Yes, there are different important areas of fit. Various torso and leg lengths affect the seated position of the climber. The adjsutments take care of this.

The different sizes are related to the pelvis (hip D to hip D measurement), the size of sliding bridge, and the leg loops.

The prototype was modelled on my dimensions and is a medium. But this wont slide up past the thighs and onto the pelvis of a larger framed climber (eg I am 6'3" and 200lbs, but a colleague 6'1" and 210lbs has a larger pelvis). Also the hip Ds will be too far round the back. So the back pad and hip D distance is sized accordingly. Also the sliding bridge will be slightly longer. Most manufacturers avoid adjustment and different sizes for obvious reasons - but it is key to fit.

We did advertise to 800 companies and individuals in industry before the release of the harness at the trade fair, to enable those interested to try it on with Davina, I and safety technology on hand to explain the features. Which is another reason why we are releasing the end product at the APF show sept 21st - so we are on hand to make sure the sizing is right. There is a lot of scope to get the perfect fit when the design is tried and understood.

See you there maybe?
 
I look forward to seeing the new harness and reading the testors experiences and opinions.

Bullman you are a TreeBuzzard and will have to wait for the large market of the USA to evaluate the Treeflex before they deign to allow a skinny Brit like you test one. /forum/images/graemlins/avid.gif /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
The TreeFlex was actually designed with the US market in mind, meaning we used stronger components than necessary to pass the European tests. I understand that the 5400lbs test strength of each component recommendation no longer stands and is under revision?

Even so, US interested parties can relax knowing the strength of the harness is phenomenal. To illustrate the point, we drop tested the harness to the stiff requirements of the fall arrest test - and it didn't rupture at all!!! That doesn't make it a fall arrest harness (a chest harness is required for that), but it does illustrate its dynamic strength - static strength of components are nothing compared to that!

Users can relax knowing that, should they fall onto a doubled low stretch line when that branch breaks while they have half a yard of slack (especially if the rope doesn't meet the EN1891 Type A standard, which requires sufficient energy absorption from a drop test), their kidneys might possibly rupture before their harness does. But you wouldn't have that chance if you were to hit the deck!

/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Actually, the kidneys are at lower risk wearing the TreeFlex, because the back pad doesn't run across them.

Of all these technical design details, the arbs that climbed in it were pleased with how comfortable it was. What more could we want!?

/forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
No.5 was efficient work positioning, posture, stance, use of spurs and chainsaws in the tree.

Paolo,
I think that the fact chainsaws can only be used right handed and you must cross load your back when cutting,does more damage to you than a harness ever will.I have needed a hip replacement now for over 5 years and it ain't from my harness its from using saws day in day out standing on spikes.I think a claim that any harness can reduce damage to you when using a chainsaws that can only be used right handed is a big one
You maybe able to hang the saw on the centre of the harness but you can do that with any harness if you can be bothered to set it up that way.Makes no difference if you hang it in the center if when you use it your using it right handed all the time.Everyone favours one side of the body or the other and will always use it over and over for most things.Are you telling us that a pro tennis or cricket players must learn to play with the other hand to gain balance in the body it ain't going to happen just like right handed climbers ain't gonna to start using the left side of their body more than they do now.All harnesses are balanced the load is equal on both sides of the body till you carry out an action.Most actions will be decided without you thinking about it using either the left or right hand side of the body no harness will change this.
Are we talking about mass reprogramming here training a right handed person to do all the precise actions they carry out everyday with there left.If by some amazing miracle your harness has been blessed by the gods to do this.Then all you have to do is convince the major saw companies to manufacture left and right handed saws.That will be tougher than getting the gods to bless any harness.
I find no conclusive documented proof that harnesses are responsible for these injurys you speak of"Can you give us this"Tree work is hard work evolution has changed us from arboreal to terrestrial" If your a Darwinist"and we ain't made to climb no more the fact we make are bodies do it F##ks us up:If people can't deal with that then they should get an office job.Oh no maybe not they suffer from bad backs from sitting down all day.
By the way I'm still waiting for Duran -Duran to sue you

Didj
 
I'd love to give you a pic! After all, we have to sell the thing right? But I'd rather wait until the finished article is ready - its not that far off - jeez its like kids that can't wait for xmas!

I'm not teasing - honestly. I don't want pics on the web until it is on sale.

If you catch up with Tom at the ISA conf, maybe he'll show you something with necessary explanations. A picture is meaningless alone.

I know, I know - don't give a clue whats for xmas before xmas eve - oops!

Sorry! /forum/images/graemlins/aaa.gif
 
Quite a lot to deal with there Didj!

You are absolutely right about chainsaw use of course, daily forestry chainsaw use is a one sided destroyer. Sorry about your hip. I was refering to hanging a chainsaw on the sides constantly. I didn't say that our harness was the only one that enables central attachment, but that it was the only one that does all the 15 criteria, which it is.

Ergonomic tools and techniques go hand in hand - I think your getting two of my earlier posts mixed up. Thats why the harness is designed for a chest ascender and hanging a saw centrally.

The harness is a work platform that must be set up correctly. The harness was No.2 in the first 5 step plan of improving treeworker ergonomics. No.5 is a techniques issue mostly.

Of course we can't use saws left handed, which is why exercise is important to compensate.

Its difficult to put out 3 years worth of study and trials in one post. We have courses designed for that.

There will be more info with the harness. Or you could come on a course.....?
 
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