Tips and Tricks

Fairfield

Fairfield

Participating member
Location
Bucks County pa USA
Thought I would try and start a thread for tips and tricks you all may come across or come up with while at play or work.

A good tip I like to have new SRT climbers try to do while climbiong in a tree, is to keep some kind of ascender (other then there main) with them for rebelaying themself as needed. This will cut down on the lanyard needing to be placed around a limb or trunk.
 
The only thing that I can think of is that you have your line cinched off at a central high point in the tree. Then you work your way out to a point further away and cinch the line off again to another point to work. It is a useful tool to use when you have no slings and bieners/micro pulleys to run a line through.
 
I'm confused???

Why would you choke off an SRT redi?

Maybe if you wanted to make sure that it didn't walk out of the redi branch union or something. Choking would capture the rope.

I can't think that I've ever choked off a redi though.

If I needed to capture the redi I would find a way to wrap the rope in a spiral so that it could be recovered later without having to to a back-climb.
 
I never thought about choking off a SRT Redi or using an unnatural SRT redi until a few weekends ago when I was prunning a large pin oak. I had to get way out on the lowest lead and used multiple redi's to avoid a long limb walk. When I finally got all the way out on the far reaching limb my rope had walked up out of the last Redi and settled on a sucker. I didn't notice and on my way back in the sucker broke off and my rope settled back into the Redi and gave me a jolt. No Big deal but it gave me some pucker factor for a second.

If I redirected with a sling and 'biner, that wouldn't have happened.
 

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I thought I read some where about choking it off I guess it was not on a redirect but on using SRT for removals. I kinda misspoke there. Does this mean not using a base tie off and just tying your rope off at the top of a spar with like a running bowline. Then descend to your next work station and use the tail to retrieve the line? Or do you guys use a base tie and "choke off" some other way? Hope that clarifies my question.
 
Tommy.

For removals I'll do it both ways.

Like so many decisions...It depends ;)

The easiest is to do like you said, choke with a running bowline and a pull-down tail of some sort.

Here's a tip that I got from a friend of mine.

If you're choking your line to the top of a spar and then moving down to make the face cut while supported by the choked TIP...enlist a groundie to do NOTHING but hold onto the tail of your rope and make sure that you move your TIP down before making the back cut...and cutting yourself out of the tree! This has happened before.

The groundie is dedicated to being your guardian angel, nothing else! Develop a command/reply so that you both know what is going on. By having your angel there you will never cut yourself out of the tree.

Doing changeovers is the most dangerous part of climbing. Climbers have stopped to do a changeover but didn't start by putting their lanyard on, and choking it, before clearing their TIP. Ooops!
 
Although it does take an extra 30 or 40 seconds to go back and clear a slinged rederect, I find that the setup takes no time or thought, and that the peace of mind knowing it is not going anywhere pays big. That is saying that you have your main anchor point chocked off high in the tree and not to the basil. Tied off to the basil I would say this is a diffrent story seeing how you can pull your whole line out without worry of how many rederects you have from the ground.
 
You could use a
Sling as your tip on the spar. I would not recommend any type of
Basil tie off when a removal. If a large piece of wood would slam the trunk it could potentially compromise your climbing line. Get tangled in it or worse. I fail to see any real advantage worth the risk.
 
I guess the idea of basal tie off depends on which tree you tie off to... If you can tie off to an adjacent tree and then redirect and drop down over the tree to be removed, you will have a great range of movement especially on a tree with a limited canopy/ has been brushed out already.

If you were tied off to the tree actually being removed, (I will agree with countryboy that it is not the best system to use), you could use a substantial stub on the spar (if you have the awareness to leave a stub as you are limbing the tree earlier) just as you would use a natural crotch for doubled rope technique.

If you do that remember that the stub left needs to be solid enough to handle over twice your weight, where as with a DDrt system, the stub will experience your weight (body, tools, etc) with srt it will experience twice that load.

Finally i would say that this should be meant for dropping straight down, just because if you move out laterally your rope might walk off the stub and lead to a fall.

-Steve
 
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If you do that remember that the stub left needs to be solid enough to handle over twice your weight, where as with a DDrt system, the stub will experience your weight (body, tools, etc) with srt it will experience twice that load. -Steve

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The only time in SRT the high point will take twice the load is when a basal tie off is used and the line is running straight up and straight back down, doing a 180. As for Ddrt the high point is always under twice the load/ force being pulled on it. This is a good topic that should be started in another post, forces placed on redirect. I have tought this in rescue classes. I knew it would only be a matter of time before it would come up here. I know if you look around it has been talked about for rigging on the Buzz.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would not recommend any type of
Basil tie off when a removal. If a large piece of wood would slam the trunk it could potentially compromise your climbing line. Get tangled in it or worse. I fail to see any real advantage worth the risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree totally Derrick.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you do that remember that the stub left needs to be solid enough to handle over twice your weight, where as with a DDrt system, the stub will experience your weight (body, tools, etc) with srt it will experience twice that load. -Steve

[/ QUOTE ]


The only time in SRT the high point will take twice the load is when a basal tie off is used and the line is running straight up and straight back down, doing a 180. As for Ddrt the high point is always under twice the load/ force being pulled on it. This is a good topic that should be started in another post, forces placed on redirect. I have tought this in rescue classes. I knew it would only be a matter of time before it would come up here. I know if you look around it has been talked about for rigging on the Buzz.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct in that base-tied SRT doubles the load on the TIP, but I disagree that in Ddrt the high point is always under twice the load....how do you figure? Yes, there are two legs of rope, but they are each bearing ~50%, not each bearing 100%. No way a 165# climber, plus gear is going to put 400# of load on a TIP in normal Ddrt.
 
Born,

The TIP loads, even static, are a bit hard to understand. There have been many studies done using dynamometers to capture the climbers load at the TIP. The numbers are impressive...and high! Sometimes tripling the static load of that 165# climber.
 
Great info guys thanks for your time! Derrick, so if you were to start a removal SRT you would likely use a type of retrievable cinch knot from the very beginning of the climb?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Born,

The TIP loads, even static, are a bit hard to understand. There have been many studies done using dynamometers to capture the climbers load at the TIP. The numbers are impressive...and high! Sometimes tripling the static load of that 165# climber.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so, but the post I was responding to mentioned the load being doubled just because the climber was using Ddrt. The load that the climber bears on the TIP is a "fixed" though variable amount, and a climber using Ddrt would apply the same load as a climber using SRT w/choked TIP, theoretically. The SRT using basal tie would be placing a 2:1 on the TIP.
 
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