Tip Tie with Control (tag) Line

Chris Schultz

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Minturn
Is there an actual name for this technique? I’ve done it a bunch, but wonder if there’s a name for it…... Situations where you need to hover a piece above/over hard targets, and not slam your rigging spar…. stupid post I know.
 
Hmm. Dual over head rigging points or just a static lowering point with a tag?
In the past I’ve had a ring in adjacent tree, and Omni(right below my cut) on the spar I’m tied into, chunking out, with a lowering device at the base of each. Here’s what I’m really trying to get at here: So as I progress down the trunk I’m removing, my rope angle from ringed spar improves with each chunk, the first few though I want the tip tied slack to be taken up as much as possible before it is in/on the system(shared) what do you guys do? Does any of that make sense? These are two tall lodgepoles that have the roof of an entryway built around them, I need to hover over a short distance of roof…Great options for rigging trees nearby (that are also being removed). A crane would make quick work of this, but terrain/access won’t allow.
 
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It’s a great technique when needed. I’ve never heard a specific name used. When I see it will be needed, I like to brush out the rigging spar first, set the block, then work other trees’ trunks to it before reascending it for dismantling. I’m sure you do similar, from your explanation.
 
Ok so you are talking about a remote top tie with a hold back. When rigging points are about level both lines do nearly equal work (when static) it acts more like span rigging. Lower down the butt tie mostly as acts as a holdback line taking some of the load but mostly controlling the swing. So I think the term your looking for is ‘butt tied hold back’. This can be rigged by using a steel biner, snap or other hardware on control line and snapped to the lowering line. The hold back or control line can run and then arrested mid span to act as a redirect lowering point. Groundie just unties the lowering line ties a slip know or other quick stopper, then the control line is pulled back to the climber. Super quick and efficient but a little less controlled due to the initial slack in the hold back
 
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It’s a great technique when needed. I’ve never heard a specific name used. When I see it will be needed, I like to brush out the rigging spar first, set the block, then work other trees’ trunks to it before reascending it for dismantling. I’m sure you do similar, from your explanation.
Exactly. I enjoy scenarios like this one, fun to make light work of heavy stuff.
 
Ok so you are talking about a remote top tie with a hold back. When rigging points are about level both lines do nearly equal work (when static) it acts more like span rigging. Lower down the butt tie mostly as acts as a holdback line taking some of the load but mostly controlling the swing. So I think the term your looking for is ‘butt tied hold back’. This can be rigged by using a steel biner, snap or other hardware on control line and snapped to the lowering line. The hold back or control line can run and then arrested mid span to act as a redirect lowering point. Groundie just unties the lowering line ties a slip know or other quick stopper, then the control line is pulled back to the climber. Super quick and efficient but a little less controlled due to the initial slack in the hold back
You verbalize it much better than I did. I’m really torn between rigging it out this way, or hand tossing firewood rounds out…. I’m hesitant to do the latter because of increased odds of fumbling a piece onto the roof..(there’s two of these LP pines)
 
You verbalize it much better than I did. I’m really torn between rigging it out this way, or hand tossing firewood rounds out…. I’m hesitant to do the latter because of increased odds of fumbling a piece onto the roof..(there’s two of these LP pines)
I worked for a ole timer with 40 years under his belt for about 7 years or so. We once in that time did the standard negative blocking. I’ll never forget the panicked look on his face when I made the ride soo smooth he thought he cut his rigging line.: a few chunks later the line crossed his bollard and he got a bit of a ride, and firewooded the rest of the spar down.
always have been curious what set him in his ways. But it was a eye opening education on all the different ways you can lower from a spar, we even lowered a few saw logs in the 18’ 24” diameter range. Amazing to watch two gins wobble like that. Really made me learn to trust wood, we would push things to the limit of starting to heave root plates
 
But it was a eye opening education on all the different ways you can lower from a spar, we even lowered a few saw logs in the 18’ 24” diameter range. Amazing to watch two gins wobble like that. Really made me learn to trust wood, we would push things to the limit of starting to heave root plates
HELL YEAH!!!
 
So as I progress down the trunk I’m removing, my rope angle from ringed spar improves with each chunk, the first few though I want the tip tied slack to be taken up as much as possible before it is in/on the system(shared) what do you guys do? Does any of that make sense?
Yes this makes sense. Do you use pretensioning? That’s generally the mode especially in those higher tip ties. A prusik pulley carabiner can be added to the rig line for a quick 2:1, but if you have a GRCS or similar device, this is where it really shines.

If there’s clearance (and sounds like there isn’t in this case) I will negative rig that first section. Sometimes it isn’t worth the calories.

If the piece can be plumb with the terminal rigging point above, there’s a lot less movement. I’m not sure if I’m reading this right, but is there a second line in the other tree on the ring? That would be better than span rigging, more control in this case.
 
Yes this makes sense. Do you use pretensioning? That’s generally the mode especially in those higher tip ties. A prusik pulley carabiner can be added to the rig line for a quick 2:1, but if you have a GRCS or similar device, this is where it really shines.

If there’s clearance (and sounds like there isn’t in this case) I will negative rig that first section. Sometimes it isn’t worth the calories.

If the piece can be plumb with the terminal rigging point above, there’s a lot less movement. I’m not sure if I’m reading this right, but is there a second line in the other tree on the ring? That would be better than span rigging, more control in this case.
The tops are going to be the toughest pieces of the job, there will be a little rope angle before the tops start to tip over. If it’s calm I think I’m going to try to jump the tops out free fall style.
 
The tops are going to be the toughest pieces of the job, there will be a little rope angle before the tops start to tip over. If it’s calm I think I’m going to try to jump the tops out free fall style.
Are you notching them? I have better luck with a slice cut with tip ties.
 
Are you notching them? I have better luck with a slice cut with tip ties.
In this case I don’t feel a slice cut will be beneficial. Tip ties when the rope is near vertical hell yeah, slice cut all day. I’m thinking face it in a way that it tips towards my rigging but doesn’t leave the “stump” this will bring the top closer to my rigging point, and allow time to take up slack from the tip tie, then I’ll cripple it.
 
In this case I don’t feel a slice cut will be beneficial. Tip ties when the rope is near vertical hell yeah, slice cut all day. I’m thinking face it in a way that it tips towards my rigging but doesn’t leave the “stump” this will bring the top closer to my rigging point, and allow time to take up slack from the tip tie, then I’ll cripple it.
Sorry, I think I’m having trouble visualizing the scenario.

edit. Reread, I thought you had a tip tie in the tree itself, I see the situation better now. In which case a cranking mechanism for the TIP tree would help- holding fast on both ropes until it settles- and cutting the pieces small- would be the m.o. I would think.
 
In the past I’ve had a ring in adjacent tree, and Omni(right below my cut) on the spar I’m tied into, chunking out, with a lowering device at the base of each. Here’s what I’m really trying to get at here: So as I progress down the trunk I’m removing, my rope angle from ringed spar improves with each chunk, the first few though I want the tip tied slack to be taken up as much as possible before it is in/on the system(shared) what do you guys do? Does any of that make sense? These are two tall lodgepoles that have the roof of an entryway built around them, I need to hover over a short distance of roof…Great options for rigging trees nearby (that are also being removed). A crane would make quick work of this, but terrain/access won’t allow.

I just call it what it is: “tip tie, butt tie”. I’ve also heard Lawrence Shultz (who uses that technique a lot) use that terminology as well.
 
In this case I don’t feel a slice cut will be beneficial. Tip ties when the rope is near vertical hell yeah, slice cut all day. I’m thinking face it in a way that it tips towards my rigging but doesn’t leave the “stump” this will bring the top closer to my rigging point, and allow time to take up slack from the tip tie, then I’ll cripple it.
on a horizontal plain say your rigging point is at 0 degrees. Face your load between 90 and 120 degrees to your gin. As the tip of your load moves with the face closing it will lay into the rigging line essentially tensioning it. Facing it right at your gin, as it tips over there has to be a moment of the rigging line going slack (unless a grcs or the like is used).
 

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