Throwline training and climbing 9/28/26

ClimbingTN

ClimbingTN

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Location
Columbia
Yes this is my big cottonwood. I was practicing throwing the bag. I really was thinking If I get this stuck I’ll have to go after it. I know most of us have been there done that. I have a shoulder impingement I’m working. My highest accurate throw was 70ft one handed. It took “a bunch” throws to get there. Why waste a TIP. I put a ring/ring saver and climbed MRS with my Vertec. I used the Pelican Arborist Tree Viper rope I mentioned in an earlier post.IMG_4883.webp
 
southsoundtree said:
Line launchers are your friend.





70' ...very respectable.
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I agree...but if a guy's got time and gumption to practice, being able to do it without a launcher is an admirable skill, IMHO. I usually ask "can I realistically get this by hand" before pulling out the big shot (and sometimes still end up shooting it). Try to find a balance of improving skills but not wasting time on the job. Don't think I can come close to 70'!
 
With a hand throw you are less likely to overthrow, less branches to pull the bag back through and create the rope path you want. With line launchers it's more likely to overthrow. Working the bag back from a long throw is a skill unto itself, more opportunities to get the throw bag stuck. Line launchers are great when there are obstructions to swinging a bag on the ground or a very narrow window to throw through.
-AJ
 
As to the overshot pita factor, get out a sharpie and mark numbers on the launcher pole, perhaps at 1" intervals, so you have some repeatability and hence better control over doing over shots. Ie you reference the amount of band pull to the numbers. They're not altitude in feet, just references. As learned from Moss, stretched-time in cooler weather (and just the temperature in general) affects the performance of the stretched latex tubing. So your reference marks agree best on similar temperature days. As you use the system you make a mental note of number vs approximate altitude (with same weight throw bag!).
 
Throwing, I can throw 70'+ single hand without hurting my shoulders unless I keep missing and its a lot of throws (can get sore from the repetition). I'm pretty accurate unless I'm standing on a hill, particularly a side slope. It throws off my calibration.

I don't always hit my mark with one toss (at that height its not uncommon to need a couple of throws) but I can reset and throw again faster than an APTA can be loaded. If two of us are trying to set the same tree, I can usually get 3 throws to one shot with the APTA. If it misses, I typically have a throwline in the tree before its loaded a second time.

As for throw weights getting stuck. Girth hitch your throwline with a 2-3" tail onto your throw weight without a spliced or tied loop. If it gets stuck, a hard pull will slip the girth hitch and lets the throwline pull out. Almost always, without the throwline, the throw weight will fall out of the tree as well. If your girth hitch isnt set tight it can slip when you dont want it to.
 
I find I can better hit right on the mark with the big shot than I can throwing. I probably over throw more than I over shoot... But I admit that's a me problem.
 
Bart_ said:
As to the overshot pita factor, get out a sharpie and mark numbers on the launcher pole, perhaps at 1" intervals, so you have some repeatability and hence better control over doing over shots. Ie you reference the amount of band pull to the numbers. They're not altitude in feet, just references. As learned from Moss, stretched-time in cooler weather (and just the temperature in general) affects the performance of the stretched latex tubing. So your reference marks agree best on similar temperature days. As you use the system you make a mental note of number vs approximate altitude (with same weight throw bag!).
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I set the tension on the slingshot based on getting a flat enough trajectory when throwing throwing into a tight window. It's going to overthrow but better chance I'll get it through the target. The comic/tragedy thing on high velocity throws is if you get a deflection off firm wood all bets are off as far as where the bag ends up going ;-)
 
+1 Moss, exactly. There's the trajectory, clear passage window, punching through twigs/leaves, "goal-posting". It's not just altitude sorry if I gave that impression. In general I've found trajectory to be +/- relatively standard so that scoring a "just-over" or "just-through" basket is dominated by vertical energy (pull).

A side benefit of marking is you get to know how much pull gets you how much excess punch power.
 
the repeatability of the result with an air cannon is why it's my go-to. no need to mark and label a bunch of lines or calculate air temperature effects on rubber, or what state of wear the band is. I have a sufficiently high volume pump that I don't mind trading reload time for accuracy and reliability.
 
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Matias, is your air cannon set up for a 12 oz bag? Are 14 and 16 oz off the table/no go, but you can use a packing thingamajig to shoot a 10 oz?

Are you OG ball valve or high tech trigger "pop(?)" valve?

Inquiring minds want to know and learn about the setup you're happy with. Well, actually I am anyway.
 
Bart_ said:
Matias, is your air cannon set up for a 12 oz bag? Are 14 and 16 oz off the table/no go, but you can use a packing thingamajig to shoot a 10 oz?

Are you OG ball valve or high tech trigger "pop(?)" valve?

Inquiring minds want to know and learn about the setup you're happy with. Well, actually I am anyway.
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I learned how to keep it straight with the ball valve that it came with, so I have been lazy about upgrading. It's got a 1.25" barrel IIRC, so it shoots the 12oz lead/10oz steel bags very nicely, but I had a 14oz lead bag that I could stuff in there that I think was a Treestuff made bag. I thought about trying to stuff a rag in there to let me fire an 8oz steel bag, but haven't had the need. the cannon will fire a 10oz steel bag high enough for anything I have needed- up to 160'.

my friends in Butte county have set theirs up with trigger valves, and one has multiple barrels for different sized projectiles. I do really like the trigger. they launch a little higher at the same pressure.

I rarely break it out for shots under 50', but for higher than that, I tend to get it quivker with the cannon, but that's partly because I had nobody teaching me tgrowline stuff, and I found the cannon to have a nuuuuch steeper learning curve, and I just improve faster at aiming it and gauging height:pressure, no matter how much I practice hand throwing.
 
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Do you guesstimate height/pressure at 1 psig increments, or 5 psig increments for discernable effects? Or is it totally analog with weird values like "64 psi didn't work I'll try 73"?

I guess using an air cannon will make you a connaisseur(sp?) of throw bag make and models and brands vs barrel fit.


edit - something cool to look into is barrel friction. A couple of possibilities are coating like silicone spray, wax etc or a teflon wrap-cloth for the bag (goretex?) or Spectra/dyneema cloth and/or polishing the bore like a gunsmith. Too much time on an idle mind :)

Apologies for the total thread derail.
 
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Bart_ said:
Do you guesstimate height/pressure at 1 psig increments, or 5 psig increments for discernable effects? Or is it totally analog with weird values like "64 psi didn't work I'll try 73"?

I guess using an air cannon will make you a connaisseur(sp?) of throw bag make and models and brands vs barrel fit.


edit - something cool to look into is barrel friction. A couple of possibilities are coating like silicone spray, wax etc or a teflon wrap-cloth for the bag (goretex?) or Spectra/dyneema cloth and/or polishing the bore like a gunsmith. Too much time on an idle mind :)

Apologies for the total thread derail.
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I got the Tree Toppler, or whatever the one that Wesspur carries is called. It's basically a 1:1 relationship height to pressure.

I have definitely tried a lot of bags and such products. I like the idea of a dyneema bag, but I worry it would be exceedingly expensive to make one thick enough to actually last a long time. Have you seen the ultra-light backpacks made of dyneema?
 
#9 clear pvc barrel puts a dent in my thoughts about friction between materials. I was presuming steel or aluminum. I don't have any exposure to woven dyneema cloth but I've seen a variety of fineness of kevlar weaves. IIRC spectra fiber-snags (fuzzes) same or less than kevlar, maybe without the broken filament fuzz that makes icetail look so bad. Plastic on plastic (presume polyester throw bags) must be ok but I think it changes the game a bit.

Spectra and kevlar were pretty close in strength, at least 30 years ago IME so I see a backpack fabric throw bag as a notable idea. Both out-do polyester.

Funny story. Only customer for a new kevlar fabric weave was a penal institution. So I call to gather their opinion of it and when I ask the obvious question "So I guess it's just better at stopping shivs?" (what else could I surmise?) the conversation got real short and over real quick. Almost felt impolite.


Wesspur page says it'll pull an 11mm rope up 100'. - but the throw bag would never get back down!


Have you tried tamping the bag like the review says?
 
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