Through cabling

[guymayor]

[ QUOTE ]
...the tree is spiraling towards death and I thought it should have just been removed.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about reversing that into an upward spiral? Root care!

Anyhow, I have done this once and side with X in general though it does depend on species, size, movement etc. Sounds like most here may be underestimating

the tree's adaptability. Must factor in branch movement in all installs; i had a cobra break from rubbing; ungood.

Nov TCI mag has a pic of sycamore's response to through cable 2 years after treemachine and i put it in--and a 70 mph storm this june-- VERY positive. Well sealed , and ribbed!

 

[classictruckman]

Yeah unfortuneately in this situation I think its to late. It was the biggest Norway Maple I've ever seen most in this area don't get over 24" DBH and 60' tall, this one was 80' tall and about 40" DBH with very little solid wood from 10' to the ground, but yeah know "Its such a big beautiful tree and the leaves are green" so what could be wrong with it?

 

[surfarmer1]

I agree about the negative forces in a heavy wind...although you could make up for the problem by inserting a small tube in the hole and passing the cable through that...the tree would compartmentalize around the tube and the cable would not rub on the healing wood...problem is the system would still side load and the leader would move about and cause stress on the other parts of the system...next time you bid a similar job use this as an example as to way there may be additional costs in as far as hardware, if you explain well the customer should understand

 

[theXman]

hey, i totally forgot about the pipe idea. thanks for bringing that one up. a few years ago, i pondered this idea of through cabling and thought I might install a small pipe. The pipe would need to extend a ways out from the wood because it's a matter of time before the pipe is swallowed up and the tree then starts eating the cable too.

I hear you on the side loading. I just don't see it being a problem in most situations.

I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[theXman]

to continue this "experimental" through-cable discussion.

Last winter we had conifer damage everywhere due to two huge snows.

breakage and trees uprooted.

well, of course a lot of Leyland Cypress fell over.

One customer had a long row of Leylands that hid his house from the road and he likes that green screen.

I think the trees were about 20 feet tall? maybe 25?

And maybe 200 feet of road length planted with these Leylands.

Anyway, like 2 of them pulled up the root plate and flooped completely on the ground and about 3 more were at 45 degrees or so.

They are planted in somewhat sandy soil, often damp and very prone to future uprooting.

I told him we could stand all the trees back up (other tree "guys" said they couldn't be saved of course, like always), install duckbill anchors to the ones that fell over and the ones that leaned.

Then I proposed something that I had been wanting to do for a while to a line of weak conifers.

I told him it was not going to be to ANSI standard for cabling and it should be actually considered experimental, (I believe i wrote this out for him like that too) but I had full faith in it and gave a 5 year garantee that none would fall over again and if they did I fix them for no charge or replace them if need be.

I drilled a whole through every main trunk at about 3/4 tree high and ran an EHS cable through every tree, the whole length of all the Leylands.

This way, I believe as a whole, they will be able to work as a team and help each other. More dampening in wind as a team and more strength in snow and ice. The strong will help the weak.

What about a few heavy ones in snow pulling down the whole line? I don't think so.

I will try to draw a diagram now to show the other details i didn't write about.

 

[theXman]

here is diagram.

after i drew it from memory, i found the video files of it.

the left trees also had the cable slowly tapper down until the through bolt with amon eyes was very close to the angle of the blue duckbill anchor cable. so, not quite as shown

 

[Sylvia]

Xman, on your Leyland cypress scenario, I think I would have preferred to stabilize all the root plates with a root plate anchor system that did not require all the drilling through the trunks.

Re your original tree scenario, I would not be in favor of a cable drilled and installed all the way through a stem that had its anchor points on two other separate stems. This would not be the same as a Rig Guy system, as that system is attached with terminal ends. To clarify, having a cable run through with no terminal end on itself, allows free movement. Where the Rig Guys even with movement of the tree, there is no sawing action on the cable attachment. We have all seen a cable that has rubbed against a branch, seen how powerful that sawing action is.

So effects of wear on the system or the tree would be very dependent on the potential for movement within the through-drilled portion. The sawing movement would be of more concern than the sideloading. Putting a pipe through may reduce initial rubbing of cable on tree, however, it would require a bigger hole, (more damage to tree) and if movement were there you would have steel on steel rubbing. And if the tree grows beyond the pipe, you have your initial bad scenario.

The tree Guy referenced in Nov TCIA, I thought, was of a conventional Rig Guy installation...perhaps I missed something in the article?

Sylvia

 

[guymayor]

[ QUOTE ]
I told him it was not going to be to ANSI standard for cabling and it should be actually considered experimental,

[/ QUOTE ]

On what basis did you say this? Which standard # do you see a problem with? Check 33.4.2

"very little solid wood from 10' to the ground, but yeah know "Its such a big beautiful tree and the leaves are green" so what could be wrong with it?"

maybe not as much as you think...how many norways fail at the stem? and what about 33.4.2?

 

[theXman]

I think something is mixed up here.

I called the Leyland through-cable "experimental".

the cable is being used to stop fall over and "side loading" the cable is what is being used.

not a pull directly in line with the cable exactly.

Do I have a wrong ANSI?

33.4.2 When necessary to reach the objective,
pruning should be performed prior to installing
a supplemental support system. Pruning shall be
in accordance with ANSI A300 Part 1 –
Pruning.

that's what I found 33.4.2

I imagine you are looking for something that says a qualified arborist can create a hardware system that meets the objectives of preventing failure. Or something worded like that that gives us some freedom to create new systems.

 

[guymayor]

[ QUOTE ]

I imagine you are looking for something that says a qualified arborist can create a hardware system that meets the objectives of preventing failure. Or something worded like that that gives us some freedom to create new systems.

[/ QUOTE ]True, that kind of wording can be found, but I was suggesting that reduction pruning is often a key element in stabilizing and retaining leylands. iow, why not shorten them instead of or in addition to the throughcable unattached to the multiple trees.

Or maybe you did, and just did not mention it. The tops are generally way above eye level, so as screen they are counterproductive. This is the month for reducing leylands, holiday greenery and all.

S, the pic was indeed of a backfastened throughcable. It was referenced in response to a request for evidence. I sent it in (never know which will be printed) in response to the speculation about cables "sawing" or "warbling" the wood they go through. I haven't seen a problem with this yet, nor have others, but check back in a few years; anything is possible.