This could be good for treecare workers...

Have to agree with Jim, more often these muni's are the green/blue shirts, and you can find them snoozing in the back and leaving early. Not all . . but a lot of em are shovel leaners every chance they get, with the job owes them mentality.
 
Yep, I attend the shade tree short course, belong to a union, work for a municipality. 3 strikes I'm out, right? I can't stand our friggin union! In my opinion 90% of the work gets done by 10% of the people. I like to think that I am one of the 10%. I just went to management and asked them to crack down on any staff that goes to a class and leaves early, or let me me drive another vehichle so I can stay. If I could find a job that pays as well right now I would take it, but thats another thread!

What's a collar cut?! LOL
 
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I can't stand our friggin union! In my opinion 90% of the work gets done by 10% of the people. I like to think that I am one of the 10%.

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I'm 8 years in and can't believe the apathy. If I wasn't left alone to do all the treework on this campus by myself I'd be long gone.
Job security is really nice. On the other hand we are generally paid less than industry standards, I'm into a wage freeze for 3 years, and it gets pretty disheartening to be constantly treated like a bum by management (whether it is deserved or not).
The place is so top heavy with management it is hard to believe. Last week I had to remove an Ash that was in the way of a watermain break. Myself and a groundie showed up, did the tree, and were gone. All the while there were 8!! white hardhats standing around scratching thier heads and looking at maps upsidedown. All of those guys will likely be recieving 'bonuses' that are half my annual salary.
I'm certainly not defending unions, I'm just suggesting there is more to the picture.
 
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What's a collar cut?!

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I'm here for you Jason.

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That's when their ID badge gets caught in their shirt and rips the collar. Real management tragedy, which can generally only be corrected by an offsite team building workshop at a golf course.
 
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What's a collar cut?!

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I'm here for you Jason.

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That's when their ID badge gets caught in their shirt and rips the collar. Real management tragedy, which can generally only be corrected by an offsite team building workshop at a golf course.

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ILMAO
See you soon Richard
 
Thanks Jim! That's why I come here - to learn new stuff!

Cerviarborist - LMAO! Sadly it's not too far from the truth with some people!!!! Although I do like doing the team building excercise when you fall backwards into peoples arms!!
 
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Thanks Jim! That's why I come here - to learn new stuff!

Cerviarborist - LMAO! Sadly it's not too far from the truth with some people!!!! Although I do like doing the team building excercise when you fall backwards into peoples arms!!

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I hope you wrote that during your break time.
 
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The downward pressure on wages is waaaay out of control, so far out of control that a non-union person can work their fingers to the bone holding three jobs and not make ends meet. That's just wrong. We aren't talking lazy people, we're talking regular folks, hard working folks, people that deserve to live without constantly worrying if they can pay the damn water bill.

Wages NEED to increase... a hell of a lot. I can't believe you guys roll over on that and blame people who are just like you, people who want to WORK for their living. It's the corps begging for handouts, not the people.

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In Ohio most public works projects are required to be paid at "prevailing wage". This was brought into law by Union's trying to level the playing field with non-union contractors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevailing_wage

I love these projects because all pay rates and benefit costs to the contractor are the same. XXXX Tree Service cannot undercut my prices because they pay less or don't have benefits. To work these projects you must have workers comp and in most cases a State approved drug free workplace program. We get nearly all of these jobs we bid. We get high prices for the work and I gladly pay the prevailing wage rates.

I agree that pay is too little in our industry. It needs to increase. In fact we are not the only industry with this problem. Our economy is based on competition. I can only charge what the market will bear. I lose jobs daily because I charge too much.

In our climate we average 200 work days due to weather, vacation, holidays etc. If you are a 3 man tree crew and gross $1800.00 per day ($75 per man per hour). You would generate $360,000.00 in revenue. As a business if you are paying over 35% of this in payroll you are on the short road to being insolvent! In fact most schools of thought will tell you to be at no more than 30%.

At 30% this totals a payroll of $108,000.00. Divide that by 3 and you get $36,000 per employee. At 35% you get $42,000 in pay to average amongst the crew. Hmmm... to increase pay in our industry you have to be able to generate more revenue.

In my eye's then only way to raise revenue is to level the playing field! Get rid of the competition that is keeping 80% of their gross revenues because they pay cash, hire illegals and have no benefit cost. As an employee refuse to work for companies that pay cash and cheat... they are dragging our wages down!

Let's get a "tree worker" union. As long as everyone doing tree work has to abide by the wages and benefits I'm in! Wait... this is sounding like what the USSR tried! When you reward non-productivity and penalize productivity (pay everyone the same regardless of their production) you get a big mess!
 
I must say I believe union's started out with the right idea in mind...but now they are running the small business owner out of work. they pay outrageous wages for the person who just sweeps the floor. look what happen to the car industry and for those of us from Ohio, which i am, they ran the rubber factories right out of business...they went south and everywhere else where the pay is minimal. If we had a tree worker's union per say it should be based on all certifications, legal workers and insured. that way all of us that are actually a small business have a chance to compete but also may reap some benefits from it, like a group insurance for example that is actually affordable so the bottom line is not eaten up by expenses.
 
We have a lumber mill here that was shut down due to the lack of houses being built during the recession, it started back up early in the spring (april I think) and they were in full production for like a month maybe 1.5 months and then they went on strike, they've been on strike since.

I think by the time they get the higher wages, more vacation time or whatever they are fighting for the mill will be bankrupt and they'll be out of a job.
 
The pressure on wages is top down, holding companies hostage with strikes is a losing proposition management always has the option of closing down and re-opening somewhere else. I'm not proposing a solution, I don't think there is one... short of greedy people growing a conscience and showing some integrity.

The guy that sweeps the floor still has a right to live in peace without fear that his power will be cut off. Just because YOU don't value what he does doesn't mean he has no value. Try living without a place to dump your garbage for a six months... trash pickup will increase radically in value. Floors have to be swept, consequently companies have to hire sweepers. Paying them a wage that will allow them a living is the right thing to do. If you can't, sweep your own floors and stop creating jobs that have no real value. Paying someone a sub-living wage just because you can get away with it is what brings wages and people down.

Most people I know don't want a handout, they want to feel valued and make an honest living. The ones without big education and rich buddies are barely surviving even though they work longer, harder and take far more risks than their educated peers. The assumption that someone who didn't attend college was under a rock the whole time and not learning anything valuable is absurd... but the American job market is based on it. That's wrong.

I'm willing to argue that the low wage earner is a bigger person and worthy of higher status than someone who makes money simply by having money to begin with. Big wealth is parasitic, it takes waaaay more than it gives and it causes chronic malaise among the very people who make it possible. I'll take hard working poor people over rich parasites any day.

Fair wages will only be possible when the income range between the rich and the poor gets a lot smaller... and I don't see that EVER happening without civil war.

Unions obviously aren't the solution... nothing is.
 
Talk about oversimplification. If only it were that straightforward. Without unions companies would still be chasing higher returns and relocating to more "supportive" locales. While many do abuse the privileges of union membership they still serve a function, protecting workers. If more companies would take that stand there would be less need of unions.

What really needs to change is the current business model that it used. Refocusing on Stakeholder value instead of shareholder value. If that was the driving force of business then everyone affected by how a company operates from it's investors to it's employees to the community it is located in and the customers who buy the products.

Another element that needs to change is how employees are accounted for on the books. Current accounting practices only show your "most valued assets" as liabilities. This is unlike other items like chippers, trucks, saws, etc... Those show up on both sides of the balance sheet. That's why payroll is seen as a cost to be reduced first before anything else.
 
Here's what I think of unions, work hard, do your best, educate yourself so you are up to date with current practices - and get paid less than some shovel leaner because he has seniority!
Unions have their place, maybe. What you lose is creativity, production, and any personal growth. Why would anyone care if they could do the job faster or smarter if they know the only thing that will get them a raise is time on the job? Too many guys I know have that attitude, they are there only to do a job. I would guess that most people here on the buzz have pride in what they do, have their own thoughts. Unions like to think for you and tell you what you want.
Jim, I wrote this one during my pre-break break. Just after my post-break break, which was just after nap time! Are you going to the green expo? I heard there is a great place to sleep upstairs!
 
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