The End Game

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

The End Game​

A technique for climbing that combines stationary rope, doubled over the branch moving rope and at times just doubled over the branch rope methods. The climber is generally ascending towards the ends of the climbing line, rather than the traditional method of ascending towards the middle. Half of the climbing line is no longer wasted only to be used for retrieval.

Works best with a sewn or spliced termination on each end of the climbing line and with multicenders that are capable of both stationary rope and moving rope methods and with rope that has very low core to cover slippage.

Advancing in the tree or moving from place to place is made much easier. Switching seamlessly from one method to another provides greater versatility while in the tree. The secondary side to the system can be used for rescue if needed and the victim is within reasonable weight to the rescuer. Also the secondary side can be pulled up with the anchor to facilitate retrieval if the climb is abandoned or taken with the climber to serve as an extremely long lanyard.

Lots of options

 

[dmonn]

Very interesting. Looks like a great versatile way to climb. I'll have to watch it a few times to see exactly how you put it together. A sketch of the system and description of the hardware used would be helpful. Nice vid.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Well I tried to make it short but that never happens and my initial intention was to lay it out on the chalkboard maybe that'll still happen. Again just another tool in the toolbox or in this case a few tools some that are already used but ended up in the bottom of the toolbox. Some find that minding the loop is a bother, I find in trees where I move around the canopy a lot I have to mind the loop as well. I find this particularly useful in conifers or tall trees where I am advancing my tie in point. It's very functional if I'm someplace where I want to take my line with me to another tree or to the other side of the tree and it also facilitates using a short climbing line at times.

 

[Tree-Taylor]

Always tinkering eh? I've been using a similar system the last couple of years. Instead of a single line I use two shorties (90' and 80'). It's great for transitioning from a base tie to a canopy anchor since you can easily seperate the lines midway and advance from there. I'd highly recommend everyone tries the double shorty, it's made my climbing much more efficient. A great take away from this video was to transition the initial tie in to ddrt while using the other climbing system. I would normally just leave a long retrieval leg if I wanted to split the lines in two but that is a neat little trick to retain the tail, seems so obvious now haha. Thanks for the video.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

P.S. I’m adding this as I think some are thinking that the “End Game” in the title means it is the best of the best in climbing techniques. Not so, it is just another method in the progression of rope climbing and the title comes from the fact that we are climbing towards the ENDS of the rope, not the middle. Many other prior methods are built into this like the V rig or double anchors on a Blakes hitch. The ends are used more than the middle and the lines (pun intended) between stationary rope, doubled moving rope and even just doubled rope are blurred.

This method is useful when high in the crown and multiple anchors are needed. Who has not fielded a question for a new climber on a stationary mid-line anchor about how to advance that anchor? This method makes that easy all the while providing an SRT escape route to the ground if needed.

 

[DSMc]

... Who has not fielded a question for a new climber on a stationary mid-line anchor about how to advance that anchor? This method makes that easy all the while providing an SRT escape route to the ground if needed.

Another enjoyable video, Richard. I have a question and I know I'm going to feel like a dummy once you explain things to me. If the suspension point needs to be advanced why not just set a standard choked top anchor. That is what I do and what I recommend to climbers that ask me that question. Going up one line SRS with one ascender and than advancing that one line would, as I see it, work out to be almost the same.

 

[evo]

Another enjoyable video, Richard. I have a question and I know I'm going to feel like a dummy once you explain things to me. If the suspension point needs to be advanced why not just set a standard choked top anchor. That is what I do and what I recommend to climbers that ask me that question. Going up one line SRS with one ascender and than advancing that one line would, as I see it, work out to be almost the same.

That would make for a borning video.

I don’t like the rope on rope when transferring from srt to DdRT. I see how it works for short back and forths but I would hate to have the need to bomb out. Remember that the tail end of the line needs to move twice as fast. A ring or other metal connector would help.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Another enjoyable video, Richard. I have a question and I know I'm going to feel like a dummy once you explain things to me. If the suspension point needs to be advanced why not just set a standard choked top anchor. That is what I do and what I recommend to climbers that ask me that question. Going up one line SRS with one ascender and than advancing that one line would, as I see it, work out to be almost the same.

I'm trying to understand and I think I do. So I guess you're assuming that it was some kind of a quickie or a screw length that is capable of a midline attachable anchor correct? So you've gone up 50 feet in the tree and now you have however many feet hanging down on the retrieval side and a bunch more hanging down on the climbing side correct? So you would propose to bring up one of those ends and advanced stats and since it off with another anchor? Just let me know if I'm understanding the question correctly.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

That would make for a borning video.

I don’t like the rope on rope when transferring from srt to DdRT. I see how it works for short back and forths but I would hate to have the need to bomb out. Remember that the tail end of the line needs to move twice as fast. A ring or other metal connector would help.

I think you're talking about the open-loop in the Alpine butterfly as it's running, correct? I do distinguish between rope on rope meaning that there's some pressure causing some friction as opposed to rope next to rope it really has no force to cause friction or heat. So the open loop of that running Alpine butterfly hardly even touches the working end and when it does there's no pressure on it to cause wear, friction or heat. So that might be a little different for example when someone is pulling redirects without hardware.
Let me know if that makes sense or if I'm off base

 

[evo]

I think you're talking about the open-loop in the Alpine butterfly as it's running, correct? I do distinguish between rope on rope meaning that there's some pressure causing some friction as opposed to rope next to rope it really has no force to cause friction or heat. So the open loop of that running Alpine butterfly hardly even touches the working end and when it does there's no pressure on it to cause wear, friction or heat. So that might be a little different for example when someone is pulling redirects without hardware.
Let me know if that makes sense or if I'm off base

Please don’t take offense, but I feel it’s bad practice even if it’s safe. Some rules are in place to prevent monkey see monkey do moments.
You could also make the arguement even if you melted the ABK loop the rope is still joined, the ABK is also used to isolate a damaged portion of rope.
Not doggin you, just seems like there is a better option is all

 

[DSMc]

... Just let me know if I'm understanding the question correctly.

Not really what I meant. If I know that the rope will need to be set higher in the tree, I will send up the end with no pull-down attached so when I get up there I can just toss the end higher like you did. I still have all the ease of working with just the rope end but I'm doing it with just one rope. Once I've reached the desired suspension point, I can then set a pull-down or work from an MRS.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Not really what I meant. If I know that the rope will need to be set higher in the tree, I will send up the end with no pull-down attached so when I get up there I can just toss the end higher like you did. I still have all the ease of working with just the rope end but I'm doing it with just one rope. Once I've reached the desired suspension point, I can then set a pull-down or work from an MRS.

Okay, yes I understand what you mean and that's an option. I've done that and then had people ask, how are you going to retrieve your line? To which I responded, I'm not, I'm going to take it to another tree it will never be retrieved from that point. Back to your comment, it's just so easy to send that other end up and have a life support rescue connection if needed or if I change my mind a retrieval option or also to have that up there to advance in the tree or a lanyard like connection. I also think that when playing this game it's important to keep in mind the need to be able to reach the ground when needed. For example, I don't think a chainsaw should ever be used unless there is an unhindered path to the ground.

 

[moss]

Good stuff Richard! I had an episode of "frozen shoulder" a few years back, auto-immune situation, shoulder joint becomes nearly immobile. Resolved well but in the meantime had to climb one-armed, you're doing great even with the understandable pain.

A lot to reap from the vid, just the simple tying an AB as a Bowline end of line substitute was cool enough for me ;-) To the point Evo made about even if the friction on the AB bight is not actually a problem don't do it 'cause it might teach a newb a bad lesson... we could discuss that into infinity but I do believe there would be no innovation if we don't shift existing paradigms, safely. I remember when it was nearly impossible to find "how to tie a Blake's Hitch" online because many experienced climbers thought it was potentially "dangerous information" for the uninitiated. Not judging Evo's comment at all, but there is room for more subtle distinctions for this "issue".
-AJ

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Please don’t take offense, but I feel it’s bad practice even if it’s safe. Some rules are in place to prevent monkey see monkey do moments.
You could also make the arguement even if you melted the ABK loop the rope is still joined, the ABK is also used to isolate a damaged portion of rope.
Not doggin you, just seems like there is a better option is all

Kind of like making the argument about using a carabiner on a base anchor saying that the tree is so large in diameter that it doesn't cross load. l guess I'm just saying it's important to distinguish between touching and damaging friction. You know the same could be said for any type of a knot if it's wrapped around something there is enough stretch in a rope, with a shock load and movement, heat build-up can be instantaneous and weakened the rope.

 

[evo]

Good stuff Richard! I had an episode of "frozen shoulder" a few years back, auto-immune situation, shoulder joint becomes nearly immobile. Resolved well but in the meantime had to climb one-armed, you're doing great even with the understandable pain.

A lot to reap from the vid, just the simple tying an AB as a Bowline end of line substitute was cool enough for me ;-) To the point Evo made about even if the friction on the AB bight is not actually a problem don't do it 'cause it might teach a newb a bad lesson... we could discuss that into infinity but I do believe there would be no innovation if we don't shift existing paradigms, safely. I remember when it was nearly impossible to find "how to tie a Blake's Hitch" online because many experienced climbers thought it was potentially "dangerous information" for the uninitiated. Not judging Evo's comment at all, but there is room for more subtle distinctions for this "issue".
-AJ

True that. Just voicing that I’d personally would use hardware. Weird shit happens in trees, kinda like going through puberty and keeping a condom close by with you at all times.
Or maybe something different all together

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Good stuff Richard! I had an episode of "frozen shoulder" a few years back, auto-immune situation, shoulder joint becomes nearly immobile. Resolved well but in the meantime had to climb one-armed, you're doing great even with the understandable pain.

A lot to reap from the vid, just the simple tying an AB as a Bowline end of line substitute was cool enough for me ;-) To the point Evo made about even if the friction on the AB bight is not actually a problem don't do it 'cause it might teach a newb a bad lesson... we could discuss that into infinity but I do believe there would be no innovation if we don't shift existing paradigms, safely. I remember when it was nearly impossible to find "how to tie a Blake's Hitch" online because many experienced climbers thought it was potentially "dangerous information" for the uninitiated. Not judging Evo's comment at all, but there is room for more subtle distinctions for this "issue".
-AJ

Absolutely agree, I think we've come a long ways and it's only been from discussing it and agreeing and disagreeing and discussing it more.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

True that. Just voicing that I’d personally would use hardware. Weird shit happens in trees, kinda like going through puberty and keeping a condom close by with you at all times.
Or maybe something different all together

I think you would all agree that I too like hardware, and if one always advocated its use you will have objections from the minimalists.
Expand the mind, expand the toolbox and buy more hardware oh and make good choices.

 

[evo]

I think you would all agree that I too like hardware, and if one always advocated its use you will have objections from the minimalists.
Expand the mind, expand the toolbox and buy more hardware oh and make good choices.

All of us agree

 

[DSMc]

Okay, yes I understand what you mean and that's an option. I've done that and then had people ask, how are you going to retrieve your line? To which I responded, I'm not, I'm going to take it to another tree it will never be retrieved from that point.

This is not helping, I'm still lost. If you run up a simple choked line to an isolated TIP, how are you going to retrieve it from some other point?

... For example, I don't think a chainsaw should ever be used unless there is an unhindered path to the ground.

Agreed, but climbing up to a simple choked TIP with one rope does allow that.

 

[moss]

This is a pretty rich exploration Richard. I really like the idea of generalizing methods and blending hardware/software (cordage) techniques across rope climbing systems. The result can be more options, potentially less gear to carry and fiddle around with up in the tree. For example my favorite "remote retrieval" system if I'm not remaining on a basal anchor throughout a climb is to simply switch to MRS with a rope sleeve/cambium saver from a "non-retrievable" canopy anchor to go to the ground at the end of a climb. You're showing an entire "Technique Infrastructure with Benefits" or TIB, haha we need more incomprehensible acronyms!
-AJ