The best cordage for an SRT ring and ring

Cordage?

  • 16 strand

    Votes: 3 100.0%

  • Beeline

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other (list other cordage in the comments)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    3
Jehinten

Jehinten

Been here much more than a while
Location
Evansville
I'm looking to make a ring to ring primarily for SRT canopy anchors. Without cutting a climbing rope I have a short piece of teufelberger ultra vee (1/2" 16 strand) and some 10mm beeline. Which would be a better option to splice onto aluminum rings, or a different cordage all together? This will be my first ring and ring as I pretty much learned to climb on SRT, although it will likely see some moving rope as well. I plan to make a standard ring and ring at first and then add a ring on a prussik at a later date to make it adjustable.
 
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Use them both to make an adjustable like you’re planning. For now I’d use the 16 strand.
The 16 strand for the ring and ring, and that same beeline with a ring spliced on for the prusik. You could have the beeline spliced with 2 eyes on a ring or have it sewn like a bound loop with the ring floating. Could do a grapevine knot too, it’s plenty strong but might retrieve easier with splice or sewn.
 
Sounds like a no brainer then, 16 strand is the go to. I actually bought it for this purpose then remembered that I had some beeline.

I've not spliced 16 strand before, but I have watched Samson's instructions which is who's instructions I follow for all of my splices. Am I correct that in a ring and ring you remove the entire core, since the splices are so close together?
 
Jehinten said:
I'm looking to make a ring to ring primarily for SRT canopy anchors. Without cutting a climbing rope I have a short piece of teufelberger ultra vee (1/2" 16 strand) and some 10mm beeline. Which would be a better option to splice onto aluminum rings, or a different cordage all together? This will be my first ring and ring as I pretty much learned to climb on SRT, although it will likely see some moving rope as well. I plan to make a standard ring and ring at first and then add a ring on a prussik at a later date to make it adjustable.
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Just a heads up, make sure you take any terminations you have on the climbing line into consideration.. Nothing worse than not being able to pass something after splicing it all up.. if it's a tight fit threading by hand in your workshop, it will be even harder to pass when it's up in the tree. There is definitely a ton of ring options available.

Also consider, maximum ring size to knot block, I've only seen 28mm tested, but dmm's multisaver uses a 34mm.

You know what would be slick if your going adjustable? A 10mm dmm thimble on the Hi-hvee hollow splice & naturally, a smaller thimble or ring prusik on the other..
 
Joeybagodonuts said:
Just a heads up, make sure you take any terminations you have on the climbing line into consideration.. Nothing worse than not being able to pass something after splicing it all up.. if it's a tight fit threading by hand in your workshop, it will be even harder to pass when it's up in the tree. There is definitely a ton of ring options available.

Also consider, maximum ring size to knot block, I've only seen 28mm tested, but dmm's multisaver uses a 34mm.

You know what would be slick if your going adjustable? A 10mm dmm thimble on the Hi-hvee hollow splice & naturally, a smaller thimble or ring prusik on the other..
Click to expand...

Good call on the splices. I've grown to not like a splice on my climbing rope, so that won't be an issue. I have a set of ISC aluminum rings that I will be using. I'd be curious to see if a 16 strand would fit in the 10mm thimble and what the strength would be as I assume it would be bunched up (not laying flat around the thimble) so some rope strands will be holding more of the load than others, even more so than normal.
 
Ditto with no splices on my climbing line.
I’ve gotten used to just tying scaffold knot/DFL on carabiners. Easy enough to untie after I slip the carabiner out, just can’t use snaps or captive eyes.
I like having eye splices on most slings, hitch cords, friction savers and lanyards though my current lanyard is knotted.

So while we’re on the subject, are there any known reputable people here on TreeBuzz that will do custom splicing work? Preferably in the US so shipping don’t get stupid. I see a lot of folks here that seem to enjoy it and the work usually looks good, but I don’t wanna be a pest and call them out to work on something they’d rather just keep as a fun hobby.
 
JeffGu said:
I have THIS one in the 3' length... lighter than the steel ring Buckingham one that I also have.
It doesn't feel like they removed the entire core, to me.
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Speaking of removing core on 16strand..
I was at a retail arb location the other day & saw some 16 strand split tails, none of them had the core removed which i found interesting.. makes me wonder if there is a stronger approach out there involving the core... The bury wasnt super engorged or enlarged either.. They looked like Blue Streak so they, may or may not have been, Yales Maxi-Splice (I'm not aware kf those keep the core, I just know it's a different process). They also carried Pelican products & i know Pelican has a cordage that could be easily mistaken for orange Hi-vee, so i can't say they aren't doing the same with the Blue Streak appearance. Short story... into long story short... they deff had core in the 6in eye.

Jehinten said:
Good call on the splices. I've grown to not like a splice on my climbing rope, so that won't be an issue. I have a set of ISC aluminum rings that I will be using. I'd be curious to see if a 16 strand would fit in the 10mm thimble and what the strength would be as I assume it would be bunched up (not laying flat around the thimble) so some rope strands will be holding more of the load than others, even more so than normal.
Click to expand...

I can't say on the thimble.. it wasn't my idea.. i can say however, they are being sold to the public like this from Nugreen.. & Nugreen usually has some pretty neat stuff going on. They definitely are setup to test & verify anything edgy they are doing as they have that tug sled they put everything through.. If they can splice cordage that apparently "isn't splicable" & have their hand splice results on that same cordage beat the manufacturers recorded Slaice or Sewn termination by a significantly large amount, id have to say their rope logic is probably sound.. You see what i did there.? "Rope Logic" Get it.? Wocka Wocka Wocka! :bananas: :endesacuerdo: :endesacuerdo:
 
I gotta see this nugreen 16 strand in the 10mm thimble because I have that thimble and I can fit Samson velocity in it and maybe slightly bigger but I never even bothered trying my hivee because I felt there's no way it would work right because it would be too tight if I could even get it through....
 
Hmm.. so your thinking is that a 11mm+ double braid eye with a core & cover involved would be easier to pass through the 10mm thimble than a 12mm cordage that uses the cover only? I know I've seen them use tachyon though it too.

My thinking would say the cover only of the slightly larger 16 strand splice would be easier to fit.. However, i would expect both to be difficult to thread through if using conventional methods of trying to fish it through. I'd approach it with a thin OD soft fid to compress the fluffy stands before they enter..
 
Joeybagodonuts said:
Hmm.. so your thinking is that a 11mm+ double braid eye with a core & cover involved would be easier to pass through the 10mm thimble than a 12mm cordage that uses the cover only? I know I've seen them use tachyon though it too.

My thinking would say the cover only of the slightly larger 16 strand splice would be easier to fit.. However, i would expect both to be difficult to thread through if using conventional methods of trying to fish it through. I'd approach it with a thin OD soft fid to compress the fluffy stands before they enter..
Click to expand...
Yea I know it's easier but I thought you meant that they put core and cover through the thimble...I still think velocity is easier but I thought we were talking hi vee 16 strand which is what I have but it's beat too.
I looked all over nugreens site and couldn't find the product you spoke of anywhere... anything they had in a 10mm DMM thimble wasn't bigger than 11mm and most were kernmantles. I'm seriously Interested in the product for purchase so I'd appreciate any link bro, thanks in advance
 
And I wouldn't bother using a rope that you need to pull that hard to get through a thimble like dmms. Only by hand if it goes through tight that's fine for me bc I know it'll stretch but when it gets that tight... Good luck bro because it's really hard to make the rope do a full 180 like that and keep it straight and untwisted so it will equalize when you load it.....
The velocity fits pretty comfy but those thicker nubbier cover braids of the 16 strands in our industry can be pretty hard to pass and I think when the cover is completely gone it's really tough to equalize if it's too tight. I'm getting some new 16 strand soon so I'd be happy to know it would fit bc I love these thimbles and I'd be even happier to know that nugreen did testing with a similar product.
 
For instance the velocity passes no problem and then sterlings super static2 10mm passes great but the 11mm superstatic2 fits barely and is so tight I never trusted it enough to even bother trying low n slow.
FYI superstatic2 is a nylon only kernmantle that I feel has simar stretch(maybe more) to velocity when I climb it but the 11mm doesn't like to make that 180 .
 
Bango Skank said:
Ditto with no splices on my climbing line.
I’ve gotten used to just tying scaffold knot/DFL on carabiners. Easy enough to untie after I slip the carabiner out, just can’t use snaps or captive eyes.
I like having eye splices on most slings, hitch cords, friction savers and lanyards though my current lanyard is knotted.

So while we’re on the subject, are there any known reputable people here on TreeBuzz that will do custom splicing work? Preferably in the US so shipping don’t get stupid. I see a lot of folks here that seem to enjoy it and the work usually looks good, but I don’t wanna be a pest and call them out to work on something they’d rather just keep as a fun hobby.
Click to expand...
Gap does custom splicing and then it would be certified as well. Not a person on treebuzz, but it would get you what you want.
 
I learned the 16 strand e 2 e splice from Nick Araya's tree stuff video. The whole core is removed and the buries overlap. The tapers are done so that the diameter is kept consistent after the throat of each splice. Unless you are making a e 2 e in excess of 5 foot long, with no overlap, there would be no reason I can tell to keep any core. The overlaping buries takes care of that. On a split tail, the core would be tapered with the taper of the bury to maintain consistent diameter and the core would need to stay because with only a single eye, you need the material inside the rope to keep it round, provide enough friction to keep it together, and keep the diameter consistent. The tree u splicing video was really worth it to me when I started splicing because it covers many different splices. Then think about whats going on. What keeps it together? The 16 strand splice or a hollow braid straight bury are held by friction like a finger trap. Finger trap only works if you have a big enough finger.
 
Mowerr said:
Yea I know it's easier but I thought you meant that they put core and cover through the thimble...I still think velocity is easier but I thought we were talking hi vee 16 strand which is what I have but it's beat too.
I looked all over nugreens site and couldn't find the product you spoke of anywhere... anything they had in a 10mm DMM thimble wasn't bigger than 11mm and most were kernmantles. I'm seriously Interested in the product for purchase so I'd appreciate any link bro, thanks in advance
Click to expand...

No.. lol... Not core + cover as a whole.. I don't know how i gave that impression. Maybe it was my comments on the split tails eyes i saw with cores intact.. Regardless, That would be a task I would not want to be burden with (threading 16 stand with core through thimble)... However, interesting note here.. last time i spoke to Taylor @ DMM, he said something about a 12mm Thimble to be able to pass our climbing lines as a whole.. Whether that's something that is even on the drawing board yet, idk.

Here's just a few of the things in use. One 16 stand, rest are "11.7's".. & i know i saw one on a pink tachyon at one point too.

www.nugreenstore.com

Arrow Frog Thimble Friction Saver (Body)

5.5 FT long Yale Arrow Frog body with a DMM Thimble spliced on one end. This friction saver is just the body, the matching thimble prusik can be found HERE. By using a thimble instead of an alu ring makes this friction saver better suited to abuse, hitting the floor from a height causes less of...
www.nugreenstore.com www.nugreenstore.com

www.nugreenstore.com

Thimble Moon Friction Saver (Body)

5.5 FT long Yale Bluemoon body with a DMM Thimble spliced on one end. This friction saver is just the body, the matching thimble prusik can be found HERE. By using a thimble instead of an alu ring makes this friction saver better suited to abuse, hitting the floor from a height causes less of an...
www.nugreenstore.com www.nugreenstore.com



Mowerr said:
And I wouldn't bother using a rope that you need to pull that hard to get through a thimble like dmms. Only by hand if it goes through tight that's fine for me bc I know it'll stretch but when it gets that tight... Good luck bro because it's really hard to make the rope do a full 180 like that and keep it straight and untwisted so it will equalize when you load it.....
The velocity fits pretty comfy but those thicker nubbier cover braids of the 16 strands in our industry can be pretty hard to pass and I think when the cover is completely gone it's really tough to equalize if it's too tight. I'm getting some new 16 strand soon so I'd be happy to know it would fit bc I love these thimbles and I'd be even happier to know that nugreen did testing with a similar product.
Click to expand...

What i do to make these easier to thread is.. you just make straight passes.. In & straight up through first hole, pull some extra slack, point & shoot straight through top hole, pull extra slack, rinse & repeat for the last. Yeah if your trying to physically PUSH over sized cordage through it, for sure it's a tough feat. But if you go about it by PULLING the cordage through & leaving enough slack at each opening to proceed to the next, it aint too bad. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

(Now, to do all that with a DB splice while trying to maintain a tight X-over & keeping enough slack in there to work with, i can deff see that being tough, especially if things are tight.. But with the 16 strand, shit.. it's a one shot deal... up & through the thimble with the hollow reduced cover tail, bury the tail, anchor off & drive it home.)


I didn't follow you comment on "once the cover is gone" it will be too tight to equalize. (I assume you meant to say core).. But regardless, why would things get even tighter after removing the core? I don't follow, it's less material, how would it get harder?

The thing about the DB vs 16 stand & these thimbles is, in the end the DB maintains it's 11+ diameter, the 16 strand has half it's bloat removed, shrinks even more so when loaded & the braids can collapse some.. As far as equalizing goes, it's a tight eye type splice, so we're not talking about a big eye or prusik loop that utilizes the ultimate benifit from an equalizing thimble floating around. Yeah, there will naturally be a little equalizing even within a tight eye, but even these oversized cordages (as tight as they can feel going through) aren't enough to keep it from doing so when we load it with our body weight, the thing is for the most part, pretty much static anyways, as there's no where for it to go. Also, like i hinted to a few words back, in this particular use, it not so much the equalizing aspect your after, but more so the lower profile shape & the bomb proof characteristic of steel.

Fugg that's long..
 
RBJtree said:
On a split tail, the core would be tapered with the taper of the bury to maintain consistent diameter and the core would need to stay because with only a single eye, you need the material inside the rope to keep it round, provide enough friction to keep it together, and keep the diameter consistent. The tree u splicing video was really worth it to me when I started splicing because it covers many different splices. Then think about whats going on. What keeps it together? The 16 strand splice or a hollow braid straight bury are held by friction like a finger trap. Finger trap only works if you have a big enough finger.
Click to expand...

Quick question on your split tail reference.
Are you referencing the technique you think they used on the 16 strand split tails i saw the other day & commented about? (They were an odd 16 strand splice technique with core in the eye).

Or are you talking about split-tails spliced like a normal 16 strand splice would be made, without core in the eye & if done correctly is a constant diameter from at least the beginning of the x-over.
 
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