SoftBankHawks
Branched out member
- Location
- Japan
Banana skin.
The Advent of Single line work
- Thread starter SoftBankHawks
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
Reg:[ QUOTE ]
...having that line running down the trunk, some or all of it being out of your view and under tension during a tree removal is a dangerous and unecessary liability
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave:[ QUOTE ]
There is a danger present here already in the technique of butt-hitching logs that fit all of the criteria you are concerned about yet are accomplished successfully and safely on a regular basis.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave, I used the word unnecessary because that ground anchor just doesn't need to be there to work the tree using SRT. Re: butt-hitching, in most cases having the ground anchor is necessary to carry out the operation.
And I wasn't only referring to the risk of the climb getting hit by a log either i.e. I was working with a crew once in New Zealand, devoted Christians they were....I had to be extra careful so not to use bad language or anything like that as it didn't go down well at all.
Anyway, I came down from the tree one day to find that the tail of my climb line had been badly cut, must have happened while they were all cutting and shifting brush from around the base the tree....yet nobody seemed to know anything about it when I asked!
I wasn't happy but it wasn't the end of the world either as I didn't feel like I'd had a close call or anything i.e.
When descending using DRT a climbers tail end is always visible before the friction hitch runs over it (in theory) which obviously works in his favour should it unknowingly get damaged....but with SRT, well its not just the visible tail end you need to worry about!
Hey, its cool and I wouldn't want to discredit the technique or anyone who uses it, but as well as not being able to maintain a constant view of the line with everything that goes on, there's just know way I'd trust anyone sawing and working around that ground anchor with my life depending on it....why on earth would I want to do that when there’s an option of anchoring it way up high in the tree?
Incidentally, we've had a couple of mishaps over the last week.... first I nearly got hit by a swinging log and then on Thursday my spike came out of a dead cedar and I got slammed face first into the trunk
....just bracing myself for no.3 now! Although you can be sure it won’t be SRT related!
[/ QUOTE ]
Reggie, this is exactly the reason why I chose to quote you and what I appreciate about your responses in regards to rigging and climbing. You are knowledgeable and polite.
On the first quote above, I was not questioning the ability of the SRT line to be able to be anchored above. Merely that on a daily basis you are working with a highly tensioned line that is often times not visible to you, handled by untrustworthy groundmen where the outcomes of each cut can affect many lives, not just your own. Yet you accomplish this successfully over and over because you have learned the limitations and dangers of this setup.
Your description of the groundman cutting the tail of your doubled rope is all too common of a scenario and a very good reason to take the extra time and pull up that tail prior to chainsaws and feeding of the chipper if it is in the same vicinity. Toss it out of the way if you can; if you can't, hang it from the tree.
You referenced again not trusting the groundcrew to stay away from a tied in support line. Yet this line can be set up at your discretion to not be accidentally accessible to the working area. These same ground crew, who are so incompetent that they can't be trusted anywhere near the vicinity of that line, are the ones that the industry is demanding carry the equipment to rescue a climber. There are plenty of circumstances that could disable you that don't involve injuries and will not be 100% avoidable. (Such as medical distress issues.)
So would you rather have your groundmen lowering you in a fashion with which they are already somewhat familiar or strap on some very unfamiliar climbing gear and tie you off with their version of a safe knot to get you down?
Even with my strong advocacy of this technique, I fully understand that it is not achieveable in every situation.
Dave
Reg:[ QUOTE ]
...having that line running down the trunk, some or all of it being out of your view and under tension during a tree removal is a dangerous and unecessary liability
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave:[ QUOTE ]
There is a danger present here already in the technique of butt-hitching logs that fit all of the criteria you are concerned about yet are accomplished successfully and safely on a regular basis.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave, I used the word unnecessary because that ground anchor just doesn't need to be there to work the tree using SRT. Re: butt-hitching, in most cases having the ground anchor is necessary to carry out the operation.
And I wasn't only referring to the risk of the climb getting hit by a log either i.e. I was working with a crew once in New Zealand, devoted Christians they were....I had to be extra careful so not to use bad language or anything like that as it didn't go down well at all.
Anyway, I came down from the tree one day to find that the tail of my climb line had been badly cut, must have happened while they were all cutting and shifting brush from around the base the tree....yet nobody seemed to know anything about it when I asked!
I wasn't happy but it wasn't the end of the world either as I didn't feel like I'd had a close call or anything i.e.
When descending using DRT a climbers tail end is always visible before the friction hitch runs over it (in theory) which obviously works in his favour should it unknowingly get damaged....but with SRT, well its not just the visible tail end you need to worry about!
Hey, its cool and I wouldn't want to discredit the technique or anyone who uses it, but as well as not being able to maintain a constant view of the line with everything that goes on, there's just know way I'd trust anyone sawing and working around that ground anchor with my life depending on it....why on earth would I want to do that when there’s an option of anchoring it way up high in the tree?
Incidentally, we've had a couple of mishaps over the last week.... first I nearly got hit by a swinging log and then on Thursday my spike came out of a dead cedar and I got slammed face first into the trunk
[/ QUOTE ]
Reggie, this is exactly the reason why I chose to quote you and what I appreciate about your responses in regards to rigging and climbing. You are knowledgeable and polite.
On the first quote above, I was not questioning the ability of the SRT line to be able to be anchored above. Merely that on a daily basis you are working with a highly tensioned line that is often times not visible to you, handled by untrustworthy groundmen where the outcomes of each cut can affect many lives, not just your own. Yet you accomplish this successfully over and over because you have learned the limitations and dangers of this setup.
Your description of the groundman cutting the tail of your doubled rope is all too common of a scenario and a very good reason to take the extra time and pull up that tail prior to chainsaws and feeding of the chipper if it is in the same vicinity. Toss it out of the way if you can; if you can't, hang it from the tree.
You referenced again not trusting the groundcrew to stay away from a tied in support line. Yet this line can be set up at your discretion to not be accidentally accessible to the working area. These same ground crew, who are so incompetent that they can't be trusted anywhere near the vicinity of that line, are the ones that the industry is demanding carry the equipment to rescue a climber. There are plenty of circumstances that could disable you that don't involve injuries and will not be 100% avoidable. (Such as medical distress issues.)
So would you rather have your groundmen lowering you in a fashion with which they are already somewhat familiar or strap on some very unfamiliar climbing gear and tie you off with their version of a safe knot to get you down?
Even with my strong advocacy of this technique, I fully understand that it is not achieveable in every situation.
Dave
- Location
- AZ
What's a "silver bull bag?"
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
Reggie, this is exactly....
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my God Dave, words all too often spoken at me by my Dad of all people
Listen, in terms of time-served, compared to you I’m a mere pup….so you understand that where I disagree it is with respect.
[ QUOTE ]
You referenced again not trusting the groundcrew to stay away from a tied in support line. Yet this line can be set up at your discretion to not be accidentally accessible to the working area.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn’t that then make the rescue option redundant?
[ QUOTE ]
So would you rather have your groundmen lowering you in a fashion with which they are already somewhat familiar or strap on some very unfamiliar climbing gear and tie you off with their version of a safe knot to get you down?
[/ QUOTE ]
Many of our ground-workers are already climbers, and while probably not as well rehearsed as they should be (myself included), we are trained and certified to carry out Ariel rescue. And in all honesty, no I wouldn’t want a bunch of guys, probably panicking, trying to lower me out of the tree without being able to properly assess both my state of health and the equipment that’s holding me up there!
Has there ever been a real life SRT rescue in treework? Anyone?
Dave, it just don’t feel right mate, maybe to others but not to me. I can go on and on throwing out more senarios, stating the obvious, if you want, but I'm sure there'd be none you hadn't already considered.
I’ll be away from tomorrow so If you reply, excuse me but I wont get to read it for a few days at least.
Thanks again
Reggie, this is exactly....
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my God Dave, words all too often spoken at me by my Dad of all people
Listen, in terms of time-served, compared to you I’m a mere pup….so you understand that where I disagree it is with respect.
[ QUOTE ]
You referenced again not trusting the groundcrew to stay away from a tied in support line. Yet this line can be set up at your discretion to not be accidentally accessible to the working area.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn’t that then make the rescue option redundant?
[ QUOTE ]
So would you rather have your groundmen lowering you in a fashion with which they are already somewhat familiar or strap on some very unfamiliar climbing gear and tie you off with their version of a safe knot to get you down?
[/ QUOTE ]
Many of our ground-workers are already climbers, and while probably not as well rehearsed as they should be (myself included), we are trained and certified to carry out Ariel rescue. And in all honesty, no I wouldn’t want a bunch of guys, probably panicking, trying to lower me out of the tree without being able to properly assess both my state of health and the equipment that’s holding me up there!
Has there ever been a real life SRT rescue in treework? Anyone?
Dave, it just don’t feel right mate, maybe to others but not to me. I can go on and on throwing out more senarios, stating the obvious, if you want, but I'm sure there'd be none you hadn't already considered.
I’ll be away from tomorrow so If you reply, excuse me but I wont get to read it for a few days at least.
Thanks again
countryboypa31
New member
- Location
- PA
Reg, I'm not sure what your looking for when you ask about an SRT rescue, but FWIW Mark Chisholm rescued one of his guy's that was ascending using a version of SRT with a trunk anchor point, when he was attacked by bee's during the ascent.
There was some discussion about it about a year back on here. If you would like i could try and find the threads.
There was some discussion about it about a year back on here. If you would like i could try and find the threads.
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
Has there ever been a real life SRT rescue in treework? Anyone?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reg, I'm not sure what your looking for when you ask about an SRT rescue, but FWIW Mark Chisholm rescued one of his guy's that was ascending using a version of SRT with a trunk anchor point, when he was attacked by bee's during the ascent.
There was some discussion about it about a year back on here. If you would like i could try and find the threads.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=55235&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
About half way down the first page.
Has there ever been a real life SRT rescue in treework? Anyone?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reg, I'm not sure what your looking for when you ask about an SRT rescue, but FWIW Mark Chisholm rescued one of his guy's that was ascending using a version of SRT with a trunk anchor point, when he was attacked by bee's during the ascent.
There was some discussion about it about a year back on here. If you would like i could try and find the threads.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=55235&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
About half way down the first page.
countryboypa31
New member
- Location
- PA
Thats the one i was talking about thanks!
SoftBankHawks
Branched out member
- Location
- Japan
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Thanks, what bad luck....but sounds like quick thinking, cool heads and SRT made the best of that situation. Gotta go now
I WEEP openly admiration and apprecitaion for your can-do approach to SRT and it's limitless possibilities ever changing and widening before our very eyes. holding the tools in our hands, low stretch lines and the crisp bite of the ascenders teeth in the crisp fall air. can you feel it? the electric hum of the line like a guitar string tightened and thrumming with excitement of what's to come. Weight the handled ascender and it's custom bar tacked stirrup, it is palpable, WORK IS BEGINNING.
Training, the body, the mind, the straight plumb bob line of SRT guiding the way to the Canopy and beyond.
SRT and it's various permutations have gripped the psyche of my compatriots the world over, gliding like a spider up a silken thread.
I hold my hands before me as if in prayer, then wave them apart holding my bare palms toward you.... LOOK! Do you see it? Like a cloud of glitter or doves released, the possibilities hang in the air before us. Catch one, like a butterfly lighting upon an outstretched finger:
SRT removal applications: the idea can be refined, the best ideas are still being refined. Protect the line from accidents....
SRT Access: Like the tree, do the most with the least, no wasted energies....
SRT Pruning: Ahh, here now like a Pollack the ideas are many and confused and run together... don't fight the current, swim with it! It's a Tao thing! I am at the tip, light cuts and crown reduction, save a terminal bud in the breast pocket and propogate anew, an arboretum atop a Brick apartment building, my mind swirls with the new colors of rope available.
I vote yes.
feel that light wind on your back, like the reassuring pressure of an old friends hand on your shoulder? It's the winds of change, and SRT rides these winds, blowing the meme of an easier, safer workday hither and yon...
Training, the body, the mind, the straight plumb bob line of SRT guiding the way to the Canopy and beyond.
SRT and it's various permutations have gripped the psyche of my compatriots the world over, gliding like a spider up a silken thread.
I hold my hands before me as if in prayer, then wave them apart holding my bare palms toward you.... LOOK! Do you see it? Like a cloud of glitter or doves released, the possibilities hang in the air before us. Catch one, like a butterfly lighting upon an outstretched finger:
SRT removal applications: the idea can be refined, the best ideas are still being refined. Protect the line from accidents....
SRT Access: Like the tree, do the most with the least, no wasted energies....
SRT Pruning: Ahh, here now like a Pollack the ideas are many and confused and run together... don't fight the current, swim with it! It's a Tao thing! I am at the tip, light cuts and crown reduction, save a terminal bud in the breast pocket and propogate anew, an arboretum atop a Brick apartment building, my mind swirls with the new colors of rope available.
I vote yes.
feel that light wind on your back, like the reassuring pressure of an old friends hand on your shoulder? It's the winds of change, and SRT rides these winds, blowing the meme of an easier, safer workday hither and yon...
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
- Location
- Medina, Ohio
WOW...Im gonna do some playin tomarrow
- Location
- Longmont, CO
The concept is great. It is logical that there is less effort involved. However, logic isn't always practical. I SRT more and more these days, but in short bursts with my lanyard. Like Taylor, I use my cinch for working short distances in the tree with SRT. But, that is also while I have a DRT system T.I.P. as well. (For redundancy).
Other than that, I don't used SRT for working a whole tree. I've tried R.A.D. systems for SRT and don't like them much. There just isn't any thing out there which will convince me to convert 100% to SRT for daily work.
Tophopper summed it up for me. I too consider the technique as a tool when needed.
Other than that, I don't used SRT for working a whole tree. I've tried R.A.D. systems for SRT and don't like them much. There just isn't any thing out there which will convince me to convert 100% to SRT for daily work.
Tophopper summed it up for me. I too consider the technique as a tool when needed.
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