That goofy dork looking guy Nick from Tree Stuff can shove it.

[96coal449]

Tariffs will level the playing field. It will take time and be a bit of a bumpy and painful road.
Historically, Americans have always stepped up to the cause, whatever the cause may be.
Opening manufacturing in the states will be a great thing. The consumers will demand quality over quantity.

The largest hurdle we face, is the lack of a motivated youthful workforce.

 

[Matias]

Remember, it’s not about how much the retailer paid it’s about how much it’ll cost them to replace that item.

So you buy a doohickey for 5 dollars and sell it to the customer for 10 dollars, good business you’d think.
But if you go to your supplier and order more doohickeys to sell and the price has gone up to 12 dollars the 10 dollars you got for the first one won’t buy a replacement so you’ve not made 5 bucks you’ve lost 2 bucks.

I don't know where you learned math. but that isn't what 50% looks like.

If the wholesaler was getting it for 5 from china, and selling it to the retailer for 10, and then the retailer sells it for 20, as is typical in retail, but then the wholesaler gets hit with the 50% tariff, it now costs them 7.50, an extra 2.50 on top of the previous 5. If other costs like energy and labor remain the same, then they can make the same actual profit of 5 by selling them to the retailer for 12.50, and then the retailer can do the same and just charge 22.50, so that the end user is covering the tariff, and the rest is business as usual, unless I missed something here?

 

[Matias]

Tariffs will level the playing field. It will take time and be a bit of a bumpy and painful road.
Historically, Americans have always stepped up to the cause, whatever the cause may be.
Opening manufacturing in the states will be a great thing. The consumers will demand quality over quantity.

The largest hurdle we face, is the lack of a motivated youthful workforce.

I don't know where you live, but around here, I have worked for 5 different companies in the last 8 months and almost everone around me was younger than me, and seemed quite motivated, and I am only 38. Believe what you want, but that hasn't been the reality that I have seen with my eyes. I see the same at most businesses I go to around here too.

 

[surveyor]

It is common sensical to see that a global tit for tat tariff war will be unnecessarily destructive to trade in a global economy, and painful to both sides. The solution is not artificial imposed tariff wars, but rather to produce a product that is desirable because it has value in and of itself. Transactions between buyers and sellers are rightly decided by this value, and both receive a benefit.

It seems to me that what will happen is that the value of our currency will be lessened as a result.

 

[Matias]

It is common sensical to see that a global tit for tat tariff war will be unnecessarily destructive to trade in a global economy, and painful to both sides. The solution is not artificial imposed tariff wars, but rather to produce a product that is desirable because it has value in and of itself. Transactions between buyers and sellers are rightly decided by this value, and both receive a benefit.

It seems to me that what will happen is that the value of our currency will be lessened as a result.

I nominate this for the top post of the thread.

 

[Analog]

Tariffs will level the playing field. It will take time and be a bit of a bumpy and painful road.
Historically, Americans have always stepped up to the cause, whatever the cause may be.
Opening manufacturing in the states will be a great thing. The consumers will demand quality over quantity.

The largest hurdle we face, is the lack of a motivated youthful workforce.

How long until the manufacturing facilities come online in the US to really make any difference? 10 years? 20 years? That's a long and bumpy and painful road, my friend. Most people's tree care needs will be towards the bottom of their spending list, after simply surviving.

"

The consumers will demand quality over quantity.

If the Walmart shoppers of America (millions and millions of low income people) were given the choice between a $5 t-shirt made in a sweatshop or a $25 t-shirt made in America (probably in our own version of a sweatshop hellscape with little/no health insurance or benefits) which do you think they'd choose? When you're trying to survive on low income and soaring housing and food costs ( I thought big orange was gonna fix that) , people will demand an affordable t-shirt on their back vs the alternative. Every time. This is simple economics.

 

[RyanCafferky]

These tariffs are going to Make Treebay Great Again.

 

[Merle Nelson]

How long until the manufacturing facilities come online in the US to really make any difference? 10 years? 20 years? That's a long and bumpy and painful road, my friend. Most people's tree care needs will be towards the bottom of their spending list, after simply surviving.

"


If the Walmart shoppers of America (millions and millions of low income people) were given the choice between a $5 t-shirt made in a sweatshop or a $25 t-shirt made in America (probably in our own version of a sweatshop hellscape with little/no health insurance or benefits) which do you think they'd choose? When you're trying to survive on low income and soaring housing and food costs ( I thought big orange was gonna fix that) , people will demand an affordable t-shirt on their back vs the alternative. Every time. This is simple economics.

This sounds like a terrifying worst case senerio to me. As an alternative possibility think of how quickly manufacturing was ramped up for WWII.

 

[Matias]

This sounds like a terrifying worst case senerio to me. As an alternative possibility think of how quickly manufacturing was ramped up for WWII.

Wasn't there also some rationing involved then? What about the relative pay rates vs. cost of living? Were all other related factors similar to now? Ramping up production is easy when the government pays all the bills.

 

[DSMc]

sadly the reality is that while tariffs can protect industry, they cant create industry out of thin air. a country requires industrial policy first, of which the united states has none. enacting tariffs without simultaneous subsidization of domestic industry simply means the cost of private investment inflates significantly as tariffs impact the ability to create tooling, obtain quality materials, etc. putting up tariffs without government investment in industry is closing the barn door after the horse has fled

hanson mentions canada has a 250% tariff rate on some american products, that is true. those tariffs are on dairy products, which protects the canadian dairy industry. dairy production in canada operates under a supply management scheme that minimizes overproduction and keeps prices artificially high compared to an unrestrained free market, but also stable. that ensures the industry retains its 220000+ canadian jobs and makes up a major agricultural commodity in many provinces.

of course the massive canadian dairy tariffs are affected by one other reality of international trade: the united states/mexico/canada agreement of 2018 negotiated by the trump administration which replaced nafta. under it the united states imports $750 million USD worth of dairy products to canada completely duty-free, no tariffs at all.

If those tariffs are none functional, why insist on having them?

If you create an environment conducive to profitable industry, it can be developed out of thin air.

 

[Tuebor]

The "bumpy road" is going to be generational. Age 35-65: you're screwed.

If tariffs were so great, why did conservatives and Republicans fight for decades to get rid of them? It wasn't the democrats sitting around country clubs and golf courses making connections between accountants and lawyers and politicians to get tax codes manipulated and free trade zones established and supply chains from Mexican Maquiadoras plants. I can remember as far back as the 1990s being mansplained by Rush Limbaugh listeners how China can do the dirty work and in the process we get cheaper goods and they get more money and a growing middle class - which was good for us since it would make them more democratic and peaceful and they would buy more of our products, Buick LeSabres usually held up as the example.

My one hope out of all this is that it dries up the supply of cheap, plastic, frivolous shit that lines the shelves of every Walmart or Dollar General, all destined for landfills in just a few years.

 

[bobs yeruncle]

If those tariffs are none functional, why insist on having them?

If you create an environment conducive to profitable industry, it can be developed out of thin air.

the tariffs perform their function exactly, they keep dairy products out of the country except for those which have been deliberately negotiated for by the united states, protecting the canadian dairy industry and those 220000 jobs and the $20 billion it adds to canadas gdp.

the liberation day tariffs appear to be a repeat of the 1930 tariff act. i dont need to tell anyone how the american economy fared during the 1930's. thats the environment being created

 

[Matias]

The "bumpy road" is going to be generational. Age 35-65: you're screwed.

If tariffs were so great, why did conservatives and Republicans fight for decades to get rid of them? It wasn't the democrats sitting around country clubs and golf courses making connections between accountants and lawyers and politicians to get tax codes manipulated and free trade zones established and supply chains from Mexican Maquiadoras plants. I can remember as far back as the 1990s being mansplained by Rush Limbaugh listeners how China can do the dirty work and in the process we get cheaper goods and they get more money and a growing middle class - which was good for us since it would make them more democratic and peaceful and they would buy more of our products, Buick LeSabres usually held up as the example.

My one hope out of all this is that it dries up the supply of cheap, plastic, frivolous shit that lines the shelves of every Walmart or Dollar General, all destined for landfills in just a few years.

I am betting that it results in even more, even shittier plastic bullshit, that will cost still more than the previous version, because that is how the profit motive works.

 

[DSMc]

the tariffs perform their function exactly, they keep dairy products out of the country except for those which have been deliberately negotiated for by the united states, protecting the canadian dairy industry and those 220000 jobs and the $20 billion it adds to canadas gdp.

the liberation day tariffs appear to be a repeat of the 1930 tariff act. i dont need to tell anyone how the american economy fared during the 1930's. thats the environment being created

So your tariffs are working just fine, for Canada.

 

[DSMc]

I am betting that it results in even more, even shittier plastic bullshit, that eill cost still more than the previous version, bexause that is how the profit motive works.

Product profit is set by sales. Stop buying cheap throw away consumables. Make a demand through discriminating purchases for quality and not only will it make quality affordable it will stop excessive global resource consumption and pollution.

 

[bobs yeruncle]

So your tariffs are working just fine, for Canada.

correct, theyre protecting a pre-existing industry. if we didnt have two cows to rub together and then enacted tariffs on farming equipment, dairy separating machinery, pasteurizers, trucks, fuel, grain fodder, etc ad infinitum then it wouldnt be very profitable to try and start a dairy farm.

 

[rico]

Stop buying cheap throw away consumables. Make a demand through discriminating purchases for quality and not only will it make quality affordable it will stop excessive global resource consumption and pollution.

The problem is that Americans are strung out on cheap expendable goods and opiates..Not sure which is worse...

 

[Matias]

Product profit is set by sales. Stop buying cheap throw away consumables. Make a demand through discriminating purchases for quality and not only will it make quality affordable it will stop excessive global resource consumption and pollution.

I made that commitment 18 years ago, but my choice, and probably yours and many others in this thread, don't seem to be enough to change the tide. It's not me you need to sell this idea to, it's the general population, and their preference is well documented. They will usually buy the cheapest option that works, and then just complain that "they don't make'em like they used to", while not understanding the deeper reality, which is that your assertion about supply/demand and profit is correct.

 

[colb]

Every time I have spoken to Nick/ emailed him he made it right and was a gentleman. I think, regardless of whatever hiccups we have with the company or the venture capitalists, etc. he's a credit to the industry.

X2

 

[Basswood]

The largest hurdle we face, is the lack of a motivated youthful workforce.

I disagree. The biggest hurdle we face is salaries have not kept up with the cost of living in most places. Why should anyone get motivated if they face minimal investment from employers?