guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Tear-out wound leads to questions
- Thread starter guymayor
- Start date
RajElectric
Participating member
- Location
- Brantford, Ontario
1. Rare
2. Forest
3. 0-100% Risk. Homeowner's choice
4. *Refer to tree falling on playground thread.
I climb trees for a living--few scary scenarios to me. Not all homeowners are climbers--some are doctors, lawyers, yoga instructors, etc. They won't go outside without sunblock. Won't let their kids eat stuff with peanuts in it. ADT protects their homes. They have 83 different insurance policies. Sign prenuptial agreements.
Truth is--my customers call me about a tree like the one in your picture. They don't ask me my opinion, they ask for a price. Just try to tell them it's safe. They're not stupid. And I'm not saying you are. I've seen both extremes--they are to be avoided.
By the way--I had a 30" maple come down in my backyard 2 years ago--it showed no evidence of the interior rot the one in your picture displays. It fell in a favorable direction and only destroyed a few fences--if it had come the other way, my home, shop, or the neighbors' would have been destroyed. Scary scenario? I've got a neighbor 2 doors down who can tell you that no "treecudder" scared him--but the tree that split his house did.
2. Forest
3. 0-100% Risk. Homeowner's choice
4. *Refer to tree falling on playground thread.
I climb trees for a living--few scary scenarios to me. Not all homeowners are climbers--some are doctors, lawyers, yoga instructors, etc. They won't go outside without sunblock. Won't let their kids eat stuff with peanuts in it. ADT protects their homes. They have 83 different insurance policies. Sign prenuptial agreements.
Truth is--my customers call me about a tree like the one in your picture. They don't ask me my opinion, they ask for a price. Just try to tell them it's safe. They're not stupid. And I'm not saying you are. I've seen both extremes--they are to be avoided.
By the way--I had a 30" maple come down in my backyard 2 years ago--it showed no evidence of the interior rot the one in your picture displays. It fell in a favorable direction and only destroyed a few fences--if it had come the other way, my home, shop, or the neighbors' would have been destroyed. Scary scenario? I've got a neighbor 2 doors down who can tell you that no "treecudder" scared him--but the tree that split his house did.
kstreehuggerco
Participating member
- Location
- Loveland. Co
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
No way anyone can say any tree is safe.
No way anyone can look at a wound and say the tree's gotta come down.
"They don't ask me my opinion, they ask for a price." because they do not know better. If you are comfortable taking advantage of that ignorance, you are part of the problem. (I feel I can say that cuz we have met.
Without knowing and considering and communicating all the options, like load reduction via pruning, treecudders have no biz opening their yaps about risks and hazards imo.
No way anyone can look at a wound and say the tree's gotta come down.
"They don't ask me my opinion, they ask for a price." because they do not know better. If you are comfortable taking advantage of that ignorance, you are part of the problem. (I feel I can say that cuz we have met.
Without knowing and considering and communicating all the options, like load reduction via pruning, treecudders have no biz opening their yaps about risks and hazards imo.
60, 70, & 80 year old customers are not ignorant--they've seen trees withstand hurricaine force winds, and they've seen them drop in a 5mph breeze. Additionally, most live on fixed incomes, and don't have the money to continue to throw at preserving questionable trees.
I could say you're taking advantage of the current environmental craze, led by Al Gore and his ilk, to sell preservation on anything producing a leaf. Let me ask you, when one of those falls and kills someone, how are you going to forgive yourself? By telling yourself the stuff JohnnyPro is selling--that we are over-populated?
I could say you're taking advantage of the current environmental craze, led by Al Gore and his ilk, to sell preservation on anything producing a leaf. Let me ask you, when one of those falls and kills someone, how are you going to forgive yourself? By telling yourself the stuff JohnnyPro is selling--that we are over-populated?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
First things first:
Let's consider this from an inspection context; my bad for jumping at the conclusions that were jumped to.
Based on that picture, what can be said about its history, condition, and reasonable management options?
Before we can talk intelligently about throwing money at management vs. removal, do the math.
I'm guessing that pruning and PHC will cost 6-7 crew hours, <$1,000, last ~5-10 years, and conserve an asset worth >$10,000.
Your turn, to show us the numbers on the economy of removal.
Let's consider this from an inspection context; my bad for jumping at the conclusions that were jumped to.
Based on that picture, what can be said about its history, condition, and reasonable management options?
Before we can talk intelligently about throwing money at management vs. removal, do the math.
I'm guessing that pruning and PHC will cost 6-7 crew hours, <$1,000, last ~5-10 years, and conserve an asset worth >$10,000.
Your turn, to show us the numbers on the economy of removal.
Last edited:
Semantics--you call it an asset. I see a hole you could throw a goat through.
Removal--$3k--done. Potentially save (intact) what looks like a historic home ($400,000?). Cost of hazardous removal as it leans on the structure ($6k?). Possible cost to taxpayer if it takes out those high power lines ($__,__?). Elderly person without phone connectivity to call for assistance. Worst case--it falls on a pedestrian or vehicle--can you put a $ figure on life, Guy?
Removal--$3k--done. Potentially save (intact) what looks like a historic home ($400,000?). Cost of hazardous removal as it leans on the structure ($6k?). Possible cost to taxpayer if it takes out those high power lines ($__,__?). Elderly person without phone connectivity to call for assistance. Worst case--it falls on a pedestrian or vehicle--can you put a $ figure on life, Guy?
I realize some of those are out of the realm of probability--but not out of the realm of possibility.
My point is that you and I don't decide what level of risk is acceptable--the homeowner does. I get the feeling that you resent that. Unless I'm mistaken, you would like to force your level of risk acceptance on the homeowner.
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT...I see that you have changed the threads original 4 questions. Now doesn't that sort of make my first post look pretty goofy?
My point is that you and I don't decide what level of risk is acceptable--the homeowner does. I get the feeling that you resent that. Unless I'm mistaken, you would like to force your level of risk acceptance on the homeowner.
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT...I see that you have changed the threads original 4 questions. Now doesn't that sort of make my first post look pretty goofy?
kstreehuggerco
Participating member
- Location
- Loveland. Co
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Sorry about the change, but nothing's goofier than throwing goats at trees. Maybe ks is done with his coffee and wants to start at the start.
Based on that picture, what can be said about the tree's history, condition, and reasonable management options?
Back in a day.
Based on that picture, what can be said about the tree's history, condition, and reasonable management options?
Back in a day.
You added:
That's a totally different proposition. When I hear a customer use the term "objective opinion", now I know I'm asked for my opinion. I'd recommend reduction and aerial evaluation. Keep the tree.
I wonder if the "treecudders" were asked for their evaluation in the same way? We can only make assumptions--can we not?
That's a totally different proposition. When I hear a customer use the term "objective opinion", now I know I'm asked for my opinion. I'd recommend reduction and aerial evaluation. Keep the tree.
I wonder if the "treecudders" were asked for their evaluation in the same way? We can only make assumptions--can we not?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
All (1? 3?) of those intimidators aka "evaluators" were volunteer do-gooders; door-knocking, basically. Maybe they were Cheneyite fascists.
Thanks for changing your opinion; not sure what changed; i'm guessing that an objective opinion is assumed in any proposal.
Sorry to start this off the wrong way!
Thanks for changing your opinion; not sure what changed; i'm guessing that an objective opinion is assumed in any proposal.
Sorry to start this off the wrong way!
- Location
- Connecticut
Cut the tree. Get the money.
Condition dictates removal. Grind the stump. Plant someting else they can enjoy.
I wouldn't imagine better photographs would improve our feelings about that one. . .
I wouldn't imagine better photographs would improve our feelings about that one. . .
CutHighnLetFly
Been here a while
- Location
- Cape Cod, MA
move the house
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
From one blurry picture you want an "objective opinion". Sure here it is... Give me a series of clear photos, or better put the tree in front of me.
When talking to customers it is very easy to read them as to whether they want a reason (your opinion) to keep a tree. BRT is correct many just call for a price to compare to the other guy. Normally, people ask for my opinion for 2 reasons; 1 they have no clue what they have or what is best for it. 2 they know what they have, love it, and someone wants to take it from them. Most of the time the HO has an objective they want to accomplish, more light on the grass, less leaves in the gutters, on and on and on. Sure Guy is right we can attempt to educate, gently, but push it too far and you aren't working. Guy not everyone is in the same "boat" as you (sure I would like to be in that position). Many of us depend on having work to keep ourselves and our crews busy with, and if that is doing our best to educate (or even picking our battles) then so be it. Im not a treecudder or even a treecuddler, Im just an arborist doing what I do best, caring for my customers (their objectives and their trees).
When talking to customers it is very easy to read them as to whether they want a reason (your opinion) to keep a tree. BRT is correct many just call for a price to compare to the other guy. Normally, people ask for my opinion for 2 reasons; 1 they have no clue what they have or what is best for it. 2 they know what they have, love it, and someone wants to take it from them. Most of the time the HO has an objective they want to accomplish, more light on the grass, less leaves in the gutters, on and on and on. Sure Guy is right we can attempt to educate, gently, but push it too far and you aren't working. Guy not everyone is in the same "boat" as you (sure I would like to be in that position). Many of us depend on having work to keep ourselves and our crews busy with, and if that is doing our best to educate (or even picking our battles) then so be it. Im not a treecudder or even a treecuddler, Im just an arborist doing what I do best, caring for my customers (their objectives and their trees).
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