TCC residency requirements

Tom Dunlap

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Location
Retired in Minneapolis
This subject has been mulled over in the past and I'd like some help trying to resolve the issue. Here in MN we have had only small issues of deciding who will be allowed to compete in the TCC. My goal is to come up with some rules that are narrow enough but can cover a wide range of characteristics.

Our goal is to open up the competition to thirty climbers. Since the event is organized by and for the benefit of climbers who work on trees in Minnesota we feel that our obligation is to resident climbers first. The ISA has taken a hands-off approach and left this issue up to the chapters.

After spending time thinking about some rules and talking with others I'm thinking of a multiple line qualification system. We would allow climbers from anywhere to compete. But, in order to have a score count for the competition or hope to represent the chapter at the ITCC they would have to meet some requirements.

-Residency in the state by showing a valid driver's license or state ID
-Work more than fifty percent of their hours on jobs within the state over the course of the year
-Choose to "score" in only one chapter competition in order to qualify for the following ITCC. Since some chapters have TCCs that are a year ahead of the calendar, the climber couldn't compete in MN and miss out then jump to WI in order to try for the following year.

The climber would be on their honor for the second two points. The only enforcement that we would have would be a notification to any of the other chapters and the expectation that any prized won in our competition would be returned. I don't think that a black listing or banishment from ANY chapter competition would be out of line either. This event is supposed to be about learning not about grabbing glory.

What do other chapter's have for requirements? Can anyone think of shortcomings or additions? Since ISA has decided to keep thier hands off, it seems like a bottom-up solution would be the right way to approach this.

Tom
 
Hi Tom
You've picked a tough one here. In New Zealand we don't suffer from the problem of climbers from 'out of State/Chapter' entering several competitions but we have discussed the issue of climbers entering in more than one of our Regional qualifying competitions to gain entry to our National Event.

I'll back up. In NZ we hold 5 TCC events each year. 4 regionals held in the main catchment areas were our arborist's are known to lurk. This is followed by the National Championship. We started running Regionals as local contractor/arborist's social events and also as a way to profile the Association (read Chapter for you USA Bods)to non member arborist's. We allow non chapter non ISA folk to enter - however they must become a member if they make the cut for the Nationals. They must of course abide by the rules and safty standards of the contest.

These Regionals have been great social events (they are very much laid back from the National event) and have been a great training ground for judges and contestants with the added bonus on raising the standard of safety throughout the Tree Care Industry in NZ. In total 74 arborist's entered the Regionals this year(2002)with 25 making it to the Nationals.

The problem of climbers entering more than one Regional has been discussed here. We've decided that a climber can enter in all 4, if they are that motivated, but only qualify in the region that they live. We don't suffer from too many contestants showing up at competitions but if the numbers got too high to handle then we would restrict the multi entry guys.

I think the requirements you state ought to lay some good ground rules, one question though...do climbers need to be chapter members to be able to compete? If so, if a climber belonged to more than one chapter then he could try to qualify for the ITCC through more than one TCC. This would especially seem fair if he works in more than one Chapter and supports them by membership.

The way I see it is that the ITCC is a competition and at the end of the day to prepare for competition you have to compete. Climbing trees all day gains you the skills and lets you play with different gear and keeps a climber competition fit but competeing is a skill in itself and you get better at it each time you go up against a field of others. I think we should be encouraging guys to enter more than one competition a year.

I'm not sure about your solution to prizes. If a good climber comes in from out of state and shows the local boys a trick or two hasn't he earnt a prize by sharing his knowlewdge? Maybe the tasty prizes could be restricted to your local climbers but if some one comes in from out of region and cleans up then he's got to get something in recognition of his skill.

Well thats me, time to go - it's bedtime, roll on Montreal.

Brad
 
Brad,

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a really good program there. Chad has told me a little about what is going on in NZ. You're right, the TCC is about fun and education. Much different than work. I always ask the climbers to leave the company shirts home that day and put on the TCC shirt. We're all together.

Several years ago we set up a membership protocol in our chapter. Any time there is an event with a paid registration we have one rate for members and the same rate for non-members plus the cost of a membership. We "give" them a "free" membership byattending. That way we don't force anyone to join the Chapter. We've picked up some members who join the next year on their own by doing this.

I think that we might restrict the entry into the Master's Challenge to members/residents only. Since the winner gets a nice trip to the ITCC it would start a riot if an interloper got to go to the ITCC on our dime. I'm with you for sure, the more competitors the better the event. This will always benefit the profession. Another example of a good virus!

Peace is Patriotic too.
Tom
 
Speaking about climbers jumping chapters to compete. I've done quite a bit of jumping around myself. As Bob Weber affectionately (I think) called me recently "the Jamboree slut".
I got the competition bug about 9 years ago. The urge to climb after work and to practice ideas grew in me the more I did it.
I was living in Hawaii when I started, they have a state competition. After winning that for two years, my boss suggested I go to California to the Chapter championships. This is when I met a group of climbers I could relate to. I was hooked. I spent a lot of time in parks climbing and wanted to be able to rub shoulders with other climbers like myself and compete more than twice a year.
This is when I got the idea to become a member of other chapters, so I could go off on cool climbing adventures and compete. I joined the Pacific Northwest Chapter one year, then I even joined the Rocky Mountain Chapter. One year I competed in Hawaii, California, Seattle, and Denver in five weeks. What a blast that was.
The idea that a traveling climber just wants to rake in on prizes is ridiculous I think. If you think about it, the climbers has to take a Friday off work to travel, airfair, hotel, car, chapter dues, and entry fee. All this paid not knowing if the prizes will be good or not or if he/she will win any of them. I may get a FREE rope and handsaw, but I pay $700 for the chance.
I do it because I love the sport. When you love something it can make you act crazy.
The rules of the game are that to represent the chapter at the Internationals, the climber has to be a resident of the chapter. I'm fine with this rule, I have recently stated that I won't compete in another chapters masters challenge, because it would be taking someones chance away. Preliminaries are still fair game though.
I wish there were more comps and they were more accessible to more climbers. I think New Zeland has the right idea. I think in a few years it will show by improvment in professionalism and saftey across the country.
 
I like the idea that a climber should be a resident of that chapter to represent them at the International level.

It's my thought that if someone travels in, pays membership to the chapter and pays the entry fee they should be allowed to place and take the prizes in the preliminary events. If they pay up, they should have the same opportunities as the locals, with the exception of the Master's Challenge.

If they should just choose to come and climb for the fun and experience, and not be scored then let them keep their money in their pocket and have a blast. As long as there is a vacancy. The chapter doesn't make anything, but the event gets strengthened by their participation.

Good luck with it.

Louie Hampton
 
Speaking from a moderately trained tree climber, I believe that the TCC here in Mn. has turned into not a medium of learning or of good climbing techniques nor a fun outing, but one that has become an event for the "professional tree-climbing champion." Correct me if I'm wrong , but this event started out as a fun way of getting tree climbers of all skilll levels together in one spot to learn, to communicate, and to feel as though they were part of a larger family. I don't beleive the local TCC should be opened up to everyone in the country who could not make into their local chapter!
 
Ambrose,

Your have a valid observation. Your comments apply to all levels and chapters of the TCC. I've been involved with the MN TCC for about 10 years. The level of competition has risen as you've observed. That speaks well of the quality of the climbers in our area. After having helped at many other chapter TCC and competed in MN I see the climbers divided into two groups. What I'll call the "Elite" group which is the very competitive and skilled climbers. On any given day any of these eight or so climbers would always make up the top slots. Then there are the rest of us who go out to have a great time and realize that unless we are uncommonly lucky, we'll all make up the rest of the pack.

Our goal is to make sure that if there are thirty resident climbers who register before the deadline, they will be assured of a slot. Any left over slots will go to guests. By having highly motivated climbers from other chapters attend the level of learning rises. I'd be doing cartwheels if our competition were attended by more elite class climbers from other chapters.

When I use the word elite, I don't mean that the group is snobby or above the rest. These are the A-list climbers. Nothing to do with attitude. When I attended my first MN TCC many years ago I saw a fellow ambling over to the work climb. He was walking with his wife and two children. The all had some piece of climbing gear. Seeing that family warmed my heart. Then I noticed some gear on the guys foot. Hmmm, a Gibb's foot ascender. Right then I knew that I needed to get to know this guy. He was thinking like I was and I could see that he had read ON ROPE. That fellow went on to win the TCC for the next two years. We've become fast friends. If you haven't met Jeff Jepson you've missed out on an opportunity to know a real Prince.

Do you compete? If you're intereseted in being on the TCC committee, drop me a note off-line. I've taken on the job of "hiring" the judges and technicians for the TCC. Being a volunteer is another really good way to learn more about climbing. After watiching thirty climbers solve the same climbing problem for a day I've learned that there may be twenty different solutions but one that really works.

Tom
 
This may be off topic, but edit away. Where can I find rules for this years competitions. I talked briefly to a coordinator (Guy Leblanc) today and he said that TX is using the latest ITCC rules.

I start having flashbacks of earlier posts and wonder if I will be able to use my butterfly.

Lots of other questions.

Thanks
 
I was thinking, maybe we should have more levels or divisions at the TCC's. There is a wide range of climbers, we should spread the wealth and recognition more.
In California they started implementing a over 40 climb, it's been going over great.
Maybe we could have a top First Timer award?
In the loggers competition they have and amateur and a pro division with prizes for both. I think once a climber wins in the amateurs he/she can go to the next level.
At martial arts comps they have all the different belt levels. Imagine if the white belts had to fight the black belts. No white belts would show up. I'm not saying we should have colored belts (that's funny), but more levels I think would bring in some more "lets have fun" climbers.
Just a thought.

Also a TCC coordinator appreciation award.
 
Just a quick question - do any other chapters have more than one TCevent each year? Sounds to me like the competitiveness of your Chapter Championship are scaring off the guys that just want to give a competition a go. This is understandable on the basis that there is a lot a at stake. Having qualifying competitions allows heaps more folk to get involved and allows those events to be a lot more low key and fun. In our 4 preliminary events we don't run a Masters which also keeps things simple.

Brad
 
All we have in the PNW is the big event. What I think we need is someone that can bring people, volunteers and climbers together and can organize. This is a lot of work if you look at it as work. We need a special kind of person that likes to rally the troops for a good cause. This is a roll I see myself doing when I stop competing. I'm 36 right now so that day is not all that far off, but right now I thank my lucky stars eveny day that I can get my butt up there.
Back in the day, California had three comps a year, now they are down to just the finals, I think some climbers are organizing a comp on their own, I'm not sure how that's going.
 
Hello Dan, Greg Liu here.

Funny you should mention about other comps. during the year. When Jesse Bawcum , Rhett Richardson and myself traveled up tp the PNW two years ago, thats what we talked about.A year later we put it together with the help of the CAA.

My thought originally on this was to not allow Capter level competitors to compete, so that they would not blow away the ones testing the water. However , we did open it up , and the turn out was great!. we had people come from out of the wood work. Ones who hadnt competed in years like Randy Hopp and others. Most of the competitors were from beginners to intermediate and few advanced.It was a good range and a very interesting Masters.

The judges were made up of WCISA competitors and the rules where made up by the same people . Very simple and to the point. We didnt want to have to get into a lot of technical stuff.We also left out the areial rescue because we didnt think that it was pertnaint to the actual comp.And also to save time.

We held another one in the upper part of northern Cali.Though, this one was held in rememberence of a yung man who was killed, the rules and regs were still all the same and again we had a great time in the rain.

I belive we will be having this type of comp. every year now. One, to give competitors a chance to hone in thier skills before the main comp. and two to let timid see if they really want to compete with the bigger boys.

It''s been fun and I would like to see more of this go on in other chapters. Although, it takes a lot of organizing I brings climbers together and to realize what part of climbing they are lacking in, for competition and normal evryday tree work as well.

Thanks

Greg
 
Thanks for the update on that Greg. That sounds great! I wish I was down there. I saw your picture in that old growth on the cover of Baileys catalog. What a great shot.
Are you coming up to Canada this year for the PNW TCC? It's May 3. I hope to see some out of chapter climbers.
Hang in there.
 
I compete in two chapters and am a member of both but would not qualify for both under Toms guidelines.I personally feel the more experience you can get the better!
The Penn-Del chapter has a east,west then a Masters run off to award the chapter rep to the ITCC,it can be a pain but again more experience.
 
Thanks Dan,

I wouldn't have had that Great experience if it wern't for Jerry Beranek. Like the no hard hat in that pic? Fell off at about 180' on the way up.

No , I dont hink I'm going to be up there this year. I have to many projects going on. I would love to , but I dont think its going to happen.

Greg
 
I've been involved in about 20 Penndel tcc , either as competitor/judge or chair . I never seen more than 6 -7 guys who really have a chance to win the whole thing(sometimes less) . Some guys just don't get it , so if a guy from out of state wants to come in and win , that makes it more competitive and I'm all for that .Sure some people just want to learn and have fun , but I like watching the people who want to win . That's what makes it a sport , so when a new competitor shows up and has a horrible day maybe it's not because of his skill level but the way he approaches the comp . It is a competition and some people learn how to compete, not just to be a better climber . Bring it on , if you are from out of state , buy your own ticket to the big dance , if half of the people entered are good enough to win , winning is that much sweeter .
 
The next meeting of our TCC committee is 2/11. By then I think that I'll have a solution that will work. Before I joined the committee they wanted to say that if a climber had a MN driver's license that was the only criteria. That might be a simple solution but not a very good one. There are climbers who live in WI but work 100% in MN. How can that be fair?

I'm with Glenn too. There are really only about 15-20% of any given group that will be likely to make it to the MC. Since our chapter foots the bill for the ITCC we want to be assured that we send someone who represents the professionals in MN. We are working through qualification standards for a woman rep to the ITCC too. Having the potential of spending up to $2,000 is daunting.

My preferance is to have the prelims open to anyone who wants to lay down their registration money. They would be able to get any prizes or awards. The MC would only be open to climbers who pass the residency standards though.

All of this feedback will be presented to our committee.

Tom
 
Tom,
Im glad the subject has been brought up! I had hoped it would before the planning of next years event. I agree with much of what has been posted already. Personally I think having more strong competitors makes the event more exciting and funner. I do not have any problems with a comp from another state so long as he (or she) is not double dipping. If a nonresident misses their own chapter event, and can meet any neighboring chapter requirements than come over and compete. But if you are competing in another event in hopes of winning 1st place because you only got 2nd or 3rd in your own chapter evnt... this is where i disagree.
I dont think alot of climbers would do this but there are those who will, and we saw it 1st hand last year. Anyway,
because all of the chapter TCC's send one comp to the ITCC,these chapter evnts in a sense are prelims or semi-finals for the the big ITCC. Very similiar to other types of sports. Now --in what sport would they allow a comp. or team to double dip and get a second chance at the finals because they blew their first chance? I think none.

Im with Tom in that prelims could be open to anyone, but for the MC the residency requirements come into play. maybe this would include a neighboring competitor, providing they meet any requirements and they can PROVE they are not double dipping.
my 2 cents anyway
John
 
In the UK, we have 5 regional events, plus the student comp, plus the european champs this year. The same bunch usually turn up, and at the top it can be extremely competitive at each event with many old rivals showing their stuff. There is always a fun atmosphere, and many of us have beaten each other at some stage - we know it can be luck on the day, although some are more committed and consistent than others. The climber to get through to the worlds usually holds their own in the top ten.
 
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