taking a sizeable locust off a house

So you do it, (one hand a saw & use a bucket without proper fall protection) but know what you're doing is wrong.. How do you sleep at night.. The guilt must be unbearbale.

I do it and defend it.. When I see a video of some rookie waving a 200t over his head like a flag, one handing to remove little sprouts, I KNOW he's in trouble.. When I see Roger Barnett or his co-workers one handing a big cut on a reach, I trust he knows what he's doing...

I sleep just fine at night. If I think something is "wrong".. I don't do it. If I think the guidelines are wrong, I don't follow them. And I don't lie!
 
IF and WHEN I do it I do NOT defend it. It's bullsh#t to suggest the guidelines apply differently to unerring pros (you) then to "boyscouts/rookies/weekend warriors" (me, apparently).

You profess a level of knowledge and profesionalism that is "over our heads" and yet here are three seperate BASIC issues you just skim over like you are somehow infalable. Read the Awakenings - there are just as many pros in there as homeowners.

Try to understand that people here are genuinely concerned for you!



oh BTW, gonna take me up on this one?
[ QUOTE ]
Ask Chisholm if he one hands and see what he says...


[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, let's do that. Are we asking if he does it or if it's only really a problem for SOME treeworkers?

[/ QUOTE ]
 
When did you do the work? There's a lot of leaves still on the trees...

Anyway. For what you were up against, I thought you did well. You called your shots and captured yourself executing what you said you'd do. Nice.
 
Guidelines are just that.. they are "rules" that were set with the intention of keeping all workers safer. Unfortunately, they have to be extremely broad and often ambiguous to account for both the vast differences in the work conditions and skill level of workers.

Rules are basically there for people that don't know enough to understand the why.. ie why shouldn't we one hand a saw?.. what are the risks and concerns?.. what can go wrong?.. when you undersatand all that, then you don't need a rule that was painted with a broad brush. There is no way to sort out who has that kind of knowledge and who doesn't... So they make the rule apply to everyone.

So yes, there is a big differrence between me and a rookie climber when it comes to one handing a saw. The rookie has to keep two hands on the saw, or he runs the risk of cutting his nose off... I don't.
 
OSHA and ANSI aren't guidelines.

Making statements that put yourself above proper industry standards may work for you...but doesn't work here. Do what you want but don't offer advice. You don't have standing to do that.



AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARD FOR ARBORICULTURAL OPERATIONS:
SAFETY REQUIREMENTS

1 GENERAL
1.1. Scope
This standard contains arboriculture* safety requirements for pruning, repairing, maintaining, and removing trees; cutting brush; and for using equipment in such operations. Terms specific to the safe practice of arboriculture appear in boldface type at first use and are defined in Annex A, the glossary.

1.2 Purpose
The purpose of this standard is to provide safety criteria for arborists and other workers engaged in arboricultural operations. It is intended as a guide to federal, state, and local authorities in drafting their regulations and may be adopted in whole or in part.

1.3 Application
This standard is intended to apply to all employers engaged in the business, trade, or performance of arboriculture; this includes tree pruning, repairing, maintaining, removal, brush cutting, or pest and soil management who hire one or more persons to perform such work. This standard serves as a reference for safety requirements for those engaged in pruning, repairing, maintaining, or removing trees, cutting brush, or performing pest and soil management. This standard may require situational modifications in response to personnel emergencies and is not intended to limit the options available to emergency responders.

1.4 Responsibilities of the Employee
Each person (employee or otherwise) shall be responsible for his or her own safety while on the job site and shall comply with the appropriate federal or state occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders that are applicable to his or her own actions and conduct.

ANSI Z133

6.3.7 When operating a chain saw, the arborist or other worker shall hold the saw firmly with both hands, keeping the thumb and fingers wrapped around the handle.
 
" In a battle between knowledge and stupidity, the latter will always win. Stupidity is everywhere and ever present. Knowledge only resides in minds that are open and willing. Knowledge has boundries where stupidity is limitless".
 
Tom,
We've had discussions about one handing saws here before.. Some for and many against the regulation. DO me a favor. Get Mark Chisholm to comment on this thread and say publicly that he doesn't one hand a saw EVER... and I'll apologize to all here.

As a point of clarification:
OSHA is for employees.. OSHA does not regulate self-employed individuals.. SO OSHA does not apply to me..

ANSI makes guidelines. There is no penalty for operating outside those guidelines alone, though should an employee get hurt, the owner can be held responsible, even criminally responsible, for failure to ensure that employees are following those guidelines.

That said, I do support industry safety standards, Some very smart people have analized how injuries happen, and developed guidelines to prevent them, THAT IS GOOD!

There are so many different variables in tree work that is hard to regulate safe behaviour in every little detail... Yes, when a climber is getting trained it is imperative to teach him to stay tied in twice when operating a saw, always put two hands on a saw, and never raise the saw above shoulder level. And it is just good for even the best climbers to obey the tules as SOP.... take the extra 5 seconds to throw that lanyard on before a cut..

Yet there are going to be times when it makes sense to break the rules. I did a large pine limb, which is on video linked below.. In order to clear the roof, I had to either reach for the cut or climb out of the bucket. IMO it was safer to reach and stay in the bucket, though I could have used the power pruner.

The cut is 15 seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8g__syN4_I

Now a boy scout mightg say yes.. use the power pruner.. its safer than reaching.. BUT that may not be true. the extra time it takes to do that will end up making a longer day of it and someone might do something stupid becasue they are rushing at the end of the day... Also, there was the possibility that the power pruner might get pinched, which would again bring in another variable that could end up getting someone hurt. It was safer for me to reach. I have the experience to make that call.

Fatigue is also a huge factor in safety. Doing things the quick and efficient way is often safer. It may not be by the book, but at the end of the day, or even the next day I'll have that much more energy to do a job safely. Any parent that has ever taken their young children to a playground can appreciate just how much of a safety factor fatigue is..
 
Why the F! does it matter if Mark Chisholm one hands a saw or not?

All I want to know is if he uses chop sticks left handed?
 
If he does it and I do it, then give him chit too, or leave me be! JUST GET REAL

The double standards around here are waist deep!

The boy scout mentality runs deeper.. put that stick down there Matty, or you'll put somebody's eye out...
 
[ QUOTE ]
" In a battle between knowledge and stupidity, the latter will always win. Stupidity is everywhere and ever present. Knowledge only resides in minds that are open and willing. Knowledge has boundries where stupidity is limitless".

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this post was a perfect one to end this thread.

It didn't work. Nice try PrimeApe.
 
I never said anything against anyone of you daniel. I do it when one handing permits. nuff said. Discussed before. You won't here me giving anyone chit about one handing a saw. Im an eagle scout
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
" In a battle between knowledge and stupidity, the latter will always win. Stupidity is everywhere and ever present. Knowledge only resides in minds that are open and willing. Knowledge has boundries where stupidity is limitless".

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this post was a perfect one to end this thread.

It didn't work. Nice try PrimeApe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I failed
frown.gif
He finally got me. sorry guys
 
Daniel...what you're missing is that YOU're the one talking here. Stand up for yourself and get off Mark's shirt tails.

Besides, if you read the Z you'll see that there is an 'out' for one-handing. Here's a bit of homework. Get your copy and find the section. It's a short line so you can transcribe it easily.

Your position and comments are dangerous. Someone who would read what you say might get the impression that you speak for good, safe tree practices. I get weary of you trying to defend practices that aren't accepted.
 
Its not just Mark.. Its all of them.. Riggs, Pat, Big Jon, Cameron, everybody. All major production arborists one-hand, with very few exceptions.. SO keep your boy scout manual in its place. Stop the hypocracy..

The posters at this site are total assholes for giving me a bit of chit for wearing a tether that is 6-12" over regulation.. You are nobody to me... you are nothing. That's all you can do after I put up a video showing advanced rigging concepts in action WTF. Put up your own videos. What's that?... you can't afford a camera. See how that works?

I AM just being real... We don't all work for Universities and Utility companies.. I don't make a living by showing up and putting in my 8 hours. I make a living by putting the wood on the ground...

I do speak for myself and backed it up with a great example on video.. Got 15 seconds? Check it out, and tell me was it wrong to run that saw over my shoulders (actually over my head)... And how do you respond? More garbage...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Its not just Mark.. Its all of them.. Riggs, Pat, Big Jon, Cameron, everybody. All major production arborists one-hand, with very few exceptions.. SO keep your boy scout manual in its place. Stop the hypocracy..

The posters at this site are total assholes for giving me a bit of chit for wearing a tether that is 6-12" over regulation.. You are nobody to me... you are nothing. That's all you can do after I put up a video showing advanced rigging concepts in action WTF. Put up your own videos. What's that?... you can't afford a camera. See how that works?

I AM just being real... We don't all work for Universities and Utility companies.. I don't make a living by showing up and putting in my 8 hours. I make a living by putting the wood on the ground...

I do speak for myself and backed it up with a great example on video.. Got 15 seconds? Check it out, and tell me was it wrong to run that saw over my shoulders (actually over my head)... And how do you respond? More garbage...

[/ QUOTE ]

If we are nobody and nothing to you then why post anything. People have just pointed out things that should be changed to be a better person and arborist. I dont think you have agreed with a single critique. In one of my first videos posted Mark C. commented on me wrapping my thumb on the front bar of the saw. It only happened once in the vid. You know what,I point it out to employees now and check myself years later because it stays with me. I am now a safer person. Sometimes things cant be perfect but we should always try. Here is a copy of a post on another thread. This is why we should always try the right way if at all possible.
[ QUOTE ]
Mark,

You are alive because you kept a safe working distance, and generally plan for the unexpected. We can't anticipate everything that can happen. The more we guard against what we know can happen in everday work practices, the better chance we'll survive the unplanned events like you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wearing a proper readily available fall restraint and decellaration lanyard althoug not mandated makes sense. Using a crane sometimes makes sense...sometimes not...Wearing hard hats make sense and glasses and so on.
I look to the standards as guidlines to protect me and other workers and bystandards. I dont follow them for fear of fines or osha reprimands...I follow them so my daughter can get a hug at night.
 
I look to the standards as guidlines to protect me and other workers and bystandards. I dont follow them for fear of fines or osha reprimands...I follow them so my daughter can get a hug at night.

:)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Its not just Mark.. Its all of them.. Riggs, Pat, Big Jon, Cameron, everybody. All major production arborists one-hand, with very few exceptions.. SO keep your boy scout manual in its place. Stop the hypocracy..

The posters at this site are total assholes for giving me a bit of chit for wearing a tether that is 6-12" over regulation.. You are nobody to me... you are nothing. That's all you can do after I put up a video showing advanced rigging concepts in action WTF. Put up your own videos. What's that?... you can't afford a camera. See how that works?

I AM just being real... We don't all work for Universities and Utility companies.. I don't make a living by showing up and putting in my 8 hours. I make a living by putting the wood on the ground...

I do speak for myself and backed it up with a great example on video.. Got 15 seconds? Check it out, and tell me was it wrong to run that saw over my shoulders (actually over my head)... And how do you respond? More garbage...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hilarious. This dude should have a reality show on TLC. We all love to watch a good dumpster fire so that we can look at ourselves and say, " you know, it could be worse. I could be a clueless tree murderer who thinks I am surrounded by inferiority, when in fact I am the F-tard".

SZ
 
[ QUOTE ]
I look to the standards as guidlines to protect me and other workers and bystandards. I dont follow them for fear of fines or osha reprimands...I follow them so my daughter can get a hug at night.

:)

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]

Hilarious. This dude should have a reality show on TLC. We all love to watch a good dumpster fire so that we can look at ourselves and say, " you know, it could be worse. I could be a clueless tree murderer who thinks I am surrounded by inferiority, when in fact I am the F-tard".

SZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Two of the best quotes in this whole thread!!!
 
this ones pretty good too: "You are nobody to me... you are nothing." daniel murphy
daniel i think you need to realign your chi. i still want to see the science of some one sticking their hand in someone's body! i mean do the doctors stick their hand up someone's azz? or is it down the throat?
 

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