Subcontractor warnings

[ghostice]

I used to struggle with the half day full day billing thing. Honestly, what the HO doesn't see is cleaning tools, maintenance travel, cleaning the truck etc etc etc. We all know this. I'm now defaulting to just a day rate and if I'm done by 13:30 or 14:00, esp. the 2nd day, I always leave them with the thought that the tool cleanup/ sharpening back home will be done that afternoon before supper for a change. That usually makes them think about "and related duties" a bit and I've never gotten pushback. And I start early so they have to get up if they want to see us start the job and I mention loading the truck and travel to the work and traffic. Most of 'em get it. In the past I've had a few try and deal but I just pass 'em on to one of the big outfits. Two years later, their work still isn't done and the back yard is full of dog presents. Can't fix . . . what is it? Some of God's children are just not worth the hassle.

 

[data farm 26]

I used to struggle with the half day full day billing thing. Honestly, what the HO doesn't see is cleaning tools, maintenance travel, cleaning the truck etc etc etc. We all know this. I'm now defaulting to just a day rate and if I'm done by 13:30 or 14:00, esp. the 2nd day, I always leave them with the thought that the tool cleanup/ sharpening back home will be done that afternoon before supper for a change. That usually makes them think about "and related duties" a bit and I've never gotten pushback. And I start early so they have to get up if they want to see us start the job and I mention loading the truck and travel to the work and traffic. Most of 'em get it. In the past I've had a few try and deal but I just pass 'em on to one of the big outfits. Two years later, their work still isn't done and the back yard is full of dog presents. Can't fix . . . what is it? Some of God's children are just not worth the hassle.

I love this post!

Do you work a day rate for homeowners? I've considered switching to that, skipping the bidding process. At least for established clients.

 

[Matias]

I love this post!

Do you work a day rate for homeowners? I've considered switching to that, skipping the bidding process. At least for established clients.

I generally do, but tell them straight up that X, Y, or Z will add to that; if I need an extra set of hands, for example.

 

[Crimsonking]

My work for homeowners is based on a day rate. I have it broken down to hourly for the odd job that is just too hard to predict. Otherwise it’s my pay as the climber, my pay as the salesman, overhead, pay as the business, plus any added expenses per job. I decide margin for negotiation based on business percentage before added expenses or after. Maybe not the most profitable way to do things, but I’m working on me. Any tips from established guys?

 

[ghostice]

Do you work a day rate for homeowners? I've considered switching to that, skipping the bidding process. At least for established clients.

Most of the time yes. But I’ll sometimes bid one day or fixed price for a tree removal for retired folks or a single mum with two kids in Uni or something. Some of the folks I work for have to save up for the work . . . lotsa folks having trouble making ends meet in Trudeau’s Cant-ada . . .

 

[data farm 26]

The problem I have with the day rate is, on one hand it seems easier.... but sometimes i like to hit a big one, exceed my expectations for paper. Maybe I'm greedy. But if I blow it out of the water for someone who’s obviously broke I def give a discount, though most people here are flush with cash. Besides me

 

[lookingup]

This is a really great thread- I'm super hungry for all this info from guys who have been there, done that.

I've just reached the point where I am considering dipping my toes into contract-climbing but am hesitant that I could be getting into a huge ordeal if the service that I will sub for doesn't share my same values.

Did anyone hire legal help when they created a written contract? Or was it a DIY document? It's obviously is just an agreement between you and them but I'm getting hung up on where to start.

 

[Crimsonking]

This is a really great thread- I'm super hungry for all this info from guys who have been there, done that.

I've just reached the point where I am considering dipping my toes into contract-climbing but am hesitant that I could be getting into a huge ordeal if the service that I will sub for doesn't share my same values.

Did anyone hire legal help when they created a written contract? Or was it a DIY document? It's obviously is just an agreement between you and them but I'm getting hung up on where to start.

Most I’ve seen are DIY. As much as it’s important to start well, it’s more important to just get started. There will be adjustments along the way, and what you present to one company may differ from what you present to another. Every contract climber I know has a client company or two that they don’t particularly care to work for, but they will to fill the schedule.

The biggest thing to have on lock when you start: have a solid plan for how you will connect regularly with climbers better than you or at least as committed to their craft as you. If you don’t, your skills will decline.

 

[Daniel]

I wish I could find a text i sent to this guy who asked me to bring in the 75' altec 60E70 bucket truck to take a few locust down and one maple a few Sundas back. I ground a few stumps for him a few years back. He was like 17 at the time. This was only second time I ever cut trees for him.

I think he's 23 now. The locust were growing through the neighbor's row of Norway spruce. That job was pushing the limits of what's possible with the lift's reach.

The guy did a terrible job on the ropes. . Every time I looked down ready to cut he hadn't taken any of the slack up, so I had to watch him pull 70 feet of slack every cut.

Then they let stuff run down into the spruce that I had told them repeatedly to hold etc..

Last tree was the maple. It was getting close to dark and i wasn't coming back on day two for the flat fee agreed. I didn't take a break all day. Not one sip of water or bite of food.


I told him to move the lowering device from the locust to the maple but he didn't. Alright, I'm not going to tell you twice. So I started roping and cutting. DZ was right next to a shed. I had taken all the big tops out and balance tied a 15' stick.

Nice cut.. and should have been a simple operation to get it on the ground, but he let that log swing right into the double doors of that shed like a battering ram.


He had to get all the equipment he rented for the job back by Monday morning. He asked me to prune another tree for free, which I was ok with, while they cleaned up the brush etc. By the time time I dropped the sticks it was past dark, using tractor lights.


If our positions were reversed and he was in the bucket it would have two days or more, if he could have done it at all. Bucket set had to be just right and he got lucky that nothing hung up in those spruce trees. Had to tip tie a few big leads and cut them low to swing them off the spruce . I'll post the one cut which is up on YouTube. The gopro died before I started on the maple. Wish I had that battering ram tgrough the shed on video.

Anyhow, that text is going to be hard to find because I deleted his number. I saved his ass, worked past dark without a break, did an extra tree and blewvthe roof off, and he didn't even say thank you.

 

[oceans]

This could be a great thread in the works. I have a perspective of both sides of this coin. I’ve subbed all over the country as a climber, and now having made efforts to better fulfill my own back log, sub in a regular group of guys onto my jobs. I like hiring subs over having employees because I think the rising waters can lift all ships, not just mine. That might be another thread in itself…

Just for perspective, let’s get out of our industry for a moment and look at an industry such as construction in which there is a General Contractor with their name on the curbside. The GC handles a portion of the work, but not all. The subs are also usually quite specific in nature, such as Framing, Plumbing, Electrical, Drywall, etc… I think this can be helpful to keep in mind since no one expects the electrical specialist fix a mistake in the rafter framing. You can see where I”m going here. In our trade, things can potentially get blurry. For this reason, it’s on me to make sure I am not asking too much (and in some cases, too little) of anyone I bring in.

Overall, and by FAR, the most important thing before, during, and after the job is communication! Make it clear what is expected of you and everyone else around you in an effort to limit unwanted surprises on the day of operations. These expectations should include, but are not limited to:

- PLANNING and BIDDING: Who will analyze the job, locate all potential hazards and concerns, and come up with the most efficient plan to execute at a fair rate?
- COORDINATION and SUPERVISION: Who put all the proper pieces together for the day(s) of operations? Who is conducting the job briefing before anything gets started? Who is managing the work flow? Are all positions filled with competent personnel? Is everyone actually performing up to task?

All I can say is if the above-mentioned things are in place, you’re already set up for success and you Don’t necessarily have to be the GC to approach that benchmark. Nothing should be assumed. COMMUNICATE!