Staying organized around the saddle...

Zebco Kid

Zebco Kid

Branched out member
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Hello All,

I'm kind of embarrassed to write this...but I'm going to duck behind relative anonymity for the necessary emotional safety (SMILE).

So as I'm climbing, with some degree of frequency I get pretty tangled up with which rope should be connected to which carabiner, which rope should be underneath or to the outside of the other rope, etc.

Is this lack of experience? Is this normal? Is reshifting, reconnecting, reorganizing all part of the tree climbing experience? Or...have I missed the first few pages of the lesson plan...and there's something equivalent to righty tighty, lefty loosey when it comes to climbing saddles and gear. Perhaps there's something like lanyard outside, climbing rope inside...

Any tricks of the trade that I have not picked up on as of yet that will help keep things in the proper orientation, and on the optimal side of the action?

Thanks...
 
Zebco Kid said:
Hello All,

I'm kind of embarrassed to write this...but I'm going to duck behind relative anonymity for the necessary emotional safety (SMILE).

So as I'm climbing, with some degree of frequency I get pretty tangled up with which rope should be connected to which carabiner, which rope should be underneath or to the outside of the other rope, etc.

Is this lack of experience? Is this normal? Is reshifting, reconnecting, reorganizing all part of the tree climbing experience? Or...have I missed the first few pages of the lesson plan...and there's something equivalent to righty tighty, lefty loosey when it comes to climbing saddles and gear. Perhaps there's something like lanyard outside, climbing rope inside...

Any tricks of the trade that I have not picked up on as of yet that will help keep things in the proper orientation, and on the optimal side of the action?

Thanks...
Click to expand...

One thing that I have learned is to keep all your textiles; lanyard, slings, flip line dedicated to one side of the harness and all the cutting implements on the opposing side.

As for whose on first, there is no shame in buying various colors of the same carabiners and using them for singular purposes. Blue carabiners for my climb line, gold for my lanyard adjuster, and gray is for the termination end of my mrs style lanyard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A lot of it just comes with experience, and knowing and understanding your systems. How to do what, and what works best for you. The more time you put in, the more it all becomes muscle memory. Keep at it and accept you will have some bumps along the way, but are always improving.
 
How many climbing systems and lanyards do you use? There's a time and place for multiple systems but inevitably you'll be rearranging systems during a climb unless you've incorporated swivels.


As your learning it's just part of the process until you've developed muscle memory and determined how you like to have things routed for your climbing style.
 
It’s good you pay attention to this and shows you are on the right track, being able to stop and orientate ropes, carabiners and devices so they are working correctly is important and it takes time before it becomes second nature. Like lots of things in climbing it is going to vary depending on system type, length of bridge, lower D’s or hip D’s, ever changing climb line angles etc.

Some things to think about that help though. When climb line is vertical or almost vertical I mostly have my lanyard on the outside, this seems to hold true for most situations such as changing TIP’s, pony tail redirects, always making sure all legs of your climb system are inside your lanyard.

The point I decide to move my lanyard to the inside of my climb system is generally when I am climbing and working with a flatter TIP angle, such as upright leaders, long limb walks or limbs that sweep up and working on other trees with a similar height to your TIP where the climb line might be anywhere between 45 degrees to flat.
 
Hello...

Thank you for your thoughts. I think like many hobbies, I've acquired more stuff than I need due to early enthusiasm and inexperience.

I seem to have a bag of extra carabiners, pulleys, eye to eye split tails, multi-slings. I suppose recreational tree climbing is no different than other hobbies: fly fishing or mountain biking, etc... In the beginning you have nothing, then you have a bunch of gear strapped all over you, then you become a veteran minimalist...in the river with one fly and a rod...or a single speed mountain bike.

It's certainly nice to have all of the bells and whistles in the canopy, but there's something really cool about being creative with less gear.

As an example, the other day I wanted to do some DRT using an akimbo. Rather than using the chest harness, which doesn't seem to like the DRT as much as the SRT, I simply wrapped a thimble prusik around the working end, clipped a DMM micro carabiner to it and the Akimbo, and climbed on up...with the Akimbo ascending hands free. Both the prusik and the micro carabiner had other primary purposes.

I like the thought around going vertical with ropes in the center and lanyard to the outside. Then, with lateral movement, that situation changes.

I too like the idea of staying organized by color, purpose, side of saddle, etc. It's nice not to be feeling about blindly for the piece of equipment that you know is there, but buried beneath something else.

Cheers!
 
Zebco Kid said:
It's nice not to be feeling about blindly for the piece of equipment that you know is there, but buried beneath something else.
Click to expand...
I know how that is. If I anticipate being in a tight situation with lots of gear, I'll clip items into extra carabiners, slings or runners and clip that into a Caritool or gear loop. That lets me pull the stuff away from my body far enough to sort through it and find what I need.
 
If I figure I'll have to have a bunch of gear up in the tree with me I often leave it on the ground clipped to a sewn daisey chain sling and have ground help tie it to my climbing line to haul up when I get up close to where I'll be working. With a couple of regular biners on it, it can be clipped around branches to give you a local "tool station" for extra gear/ water bottle/ lunch etc. I usually prefer this to a bag because you don't have to go fishing around for stuff. Saves weight on your belt and easy to move with you if you need to.
 
Ghostice,

That’s a really cool approach (the daisy chain…).

I was thinking while reading all of your thoughts. I have a friend who is a Photoshop Expert. When teaching a class, he says that they will never remember how to use each feature. He tells them, …”when you get in a situation, you’ll remember then that there was a way to accomplish what you want to do.”

I have had a lot of that with all of your contributions. I’m always looking for approaches to this climbing. I’m by no means fancy or super experienced. Just enthusiastic.

Contrary to what my Photoshop friend says, sometimes I can’t quite remember what I learned while I’m in the canopy. I’ll come home and look for the lesson.

One example was this weekend. I was exploring limb walking with the Akimbo while DRT. I remembered someone tying an alpine butterfly, adding a carabiner, then running the working end through the carabiner…creating a 3:1 advantage.

Well, that wasn’t wasn’t working out the way I remembered. I came home and found out it was in a SRT configuration. Oops!

Oh…and don’t get me started on the myriad of friction hitches viewed and explored in the field - but there have been many. I’ve yet to find “The One.”

Nothing but fun.

Ps…OldOakman, Thanks for the moral support!
 
oldoakman said:
Dont get rid of your extra gear. The day will come when you will need it.
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I was confused sometimes in the same way my first couple years of rec climbing. But the more you do it, the more everything falls into place. The position on the saddle will sort of arrange itself over time as you get used to putting stuff back again and again, and getting comfortable with where you hang it. And about having extra gear, I found pretty quick that different trees can require completely different systems and setups, so you might be glad you hung onto to something even if you don't use it very often. Gear addiction is one of the potential hazards of this pursuit but also part of the fun. Another thing about extra gear is that sooner or later you might want to take a friend or other interested party climbing with you and suddenly it is rather neat to have that extra saddle and other stuff.
 
". . . . And about having extra gear, I found pretty quick that different trees can require completely different systems and setups, . . . "

In most of my climbing (not only trees), we try to develop a systematic way of looking at a situation, then stick with your system and be critical of it all the time, get another really experienced climber(s) to look at it and critique it and ensure your system has redundancy and is "safe". Know it's bounds always. Trusting your system can help immensely too with nerves as you encounter new climbing situations. There are many ways to load up a saddle, do basal ties, canopy ties, redirects, ascend, etc. but really you find what works for you and your climbing style in the trees you climb and stick with it (but avoid going on "autopilot", ever, and not thinking about what you're dong). Wicked gravity is always there to end your fun. In this game, there's also the variable nature of the trees themselves which adds an element of risk that has to be managed adeptly, though in my mind it is less risk than the objective hazard in alpine climbing (or sometimes even driving somewhere with all the idiots on our roads). Stay safe out there. Cheers.

These comments brought to you by someone who was born under the astrological birth sign of the Cringing Chicken . . .
 
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Pretty cool, eh?
Forums like this is where it’s at man. The more popular social media stuff catering to tree climbers is a lot of rudeness and ego stoking. Not all bad, but hard to find the good sometimes.

You fit in well here Zebco Kid, you seem like a really friendly, polite, and intelligent fella.
 
Early in my rec climbing I found that I'd pinned both hands against against the tree with my lanyard and main rope. After the initial "WTF?" it was kind of an awesome moment ;-) It wasn't that difficult to get out of but it made me start down the path of working more on line and gear management in the tree.

Yeah, I'm constantly making decisions on where I want this or that clipped in, to which bridge in a two-bridge system, or to the D's and why. One of the basic ones that can get you reconfiguring attachment points in the tree is forgetting to make sure the tail of either your main rope or lanyard is "aimed down" if there is not a swivel in the mix. Flipping the tail of your main rope around over your head/behind you (needs to be a swivel in the mix) is another move that can be very helpful when you realize for a particular situation it would be better to have the tail on one side of you or the other. Particularly when there is a second tie-in in front of you that you don't want to take out but you still want the main system oriented to the other side. If that makes sense ;-) Rope management is everything during a climb.
-AJ
 
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I understand. I took a trip to Oregon for a climbing competition a couple months back (I was not competing!). That was really enjoyable to see everyone maneuvering through the canopy, hitting the bells, and tossing the batons into the buckets.

There are some local climbers that are trying to generate a regularly scheduled group climb (every two weeks), but progress is glacial.

At any rate...thank you for your contribution on this thread, as well as all of your others. Good stuff!
 
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