srt cut rope

swingdude said:
Well here goes Tim....I have trained a few climbers but only one made my cut and has since moved on...because I do most of my climbing, guys here just can't do what I do...they tend to NOT listen and be lazy climbers...I always go the extra mile ....am real particular how I view safety and am efficient with the way I work a tree...these guys burn out of energy real quick....if you cannot get out or up to tips you need not apply....SRT is key working in wide tropical trees with not so great TIP's so you have to be creative...SRT makes things happen fast...my trainees cannot get SRT...anyways at this point it is what it is...guys claim to want to climb ...I cannot allow crap work or dangerous practices on my jobs....
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Thanks for taking the time to give such a thorough, honest response, swingdude. Much appreciated.

Tim
 
And just a little add, to be a great climbing arborist there must be passion and a love for the work...going to work for me is not a chore ...I look forward to the challenges and excitement daily...for a lot it is a job and those who think like that could never work for me....it puts a damper on the work and I have low tolerance for that type of person...PASSION is key ...find a guy or gal with that and you are golden....
 
evo said:
True, also dont forget that goes for every point your rope is touching the tree which can be every limb on the rope path to the base tie. That base tie can be a different tree, truck, house, or any other suitable object (just make sure it's bomber). I have tied into steel railings, concrete piers, chippers, and even a '81 Subaru GL wagon. The Subaru base tie went through the passenger window, out the drivers window, then driver side rear door window and passenger rear window. (don't forget to take the damn keys out and keep them with you)
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Subaru Base Tie....I like it...Evo...trippy...we use what is at hand to carry out the job...I base tie often just hardly work of it...used to do when I had more attentive ground staff...this bunch I have just don't cut it and it's been a year since I returned from my very short stint in the UK.....I do enter the canopy with one a lot but switch to my trusted canopy cinch....
 
Frax said:
Basal anchors and canopy anchors have different characteristics. What's best in one situation might not be in another.
Canopy anchors are super secure because they cinch the stem. I might install it so it looks like it's in a crotch, but really it's mostly grabbing the main stem. It can't roll either, so if it's not directly in the crotch it's not as big a deal as doubled rope or basal tie.
If you have to move out far laterally to get limbs over a roof, a basal anchor that redirects over the target zone is probably your most secure. In these cases you probably aren't cutting near your base tie either.
The main danger with basal anchors is cutting your own line in my opinion. Don't think it can't happen. (For comparison >>guys cut out their tie ins on removals occasionally either old school or new school.) It can happen. I strongly believe one should eliminate this hazard if you're cutting near the base leg if possible.
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Frax, thanks for this post. Food for thought. So far I've mostly used the cinched canopy anchor to secure my second climbing rope while reducing or cutting back a big lateral that was threatening a house. Having a cinched tie-in on the lateral meant that I could cut a section, drop down, introduce slack in the cinch to get it to drop, and cinch it again. It worked really well. I'll have to open my mind up to the possibilities of using it cinched around the main stem, also. Thanks for your posts, and your willingness to educate me.

With regard to reducing the risk of cutting one's climbing line, one technique that @southsoundtree described using is to clip his "down" line to the side of his saddle away from the cut, if I'm remembering correctly. I guess it helps him to keep his rope in plain view, and away from the cutting tools.

Thanks again for all of your input.

Tim
 
skew said:
This happened a few weeks ago: A guy here was doing some contract work for the town. Climbing srt solo working on street trees no groundie. Cut his line- no lanyard- with a chainsaw and landed on his ass breaking his tailbone. These guys have sketchy safety and it has pointed out to the city arborist and city safety guy but they chose to do nothing. It is being kept hush hush I think because they are afraid of fallout.
I've seen the injured climber doing unsafe things before . The guys in question have only been in business for one year with only a few years experience before that. I wonder if srt is responsible for more accidents occurring? The premium is on speed of ascent and in general speed. I was thinking about it while I was ascending drt the other day and trimming a bunch of crap outa my way on the way up and thinking that it is good to climb slow and evaluate your surroundings as you are gaining height and position. As well as staying lanyard in for back up almost constantly.
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I never understood why people think srt is more dangerous. You cut a leg of your ddrt, you're Fuckered just as fast.
 
swingdude said:
Yup..
Most are just freaked out looking at one rope instead of two legs....a true headfuck
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SRT isn't more dangerous. I SRT about 85%of the time, sometimes canopy, sometimes base tie.
But it does have different risk factors than doubled rope. That's the main thing to acknowledge.
The cutting issue on base tie is simply that the base leg is often right down the trunk, could be partly concealed in vines and a climber moving fast, especially if SRT is kind of new might forget the rope is there. At least a couple of guys have cut themselves out of trees reaching around to knock off a limb on the way up or down. It's not as obvious as the rope that's right in front of you (whether doubled or single rope).
 
SRT is the fucking bomb...plain and simple....95% of the time I am climbing SRT....DdRT is suitable for small shitty trees....
 
Frax said:
SRT isn't more dangerous. I SRT about 85%of the time, sometimes canopy, sometimes base tie.
But it does have different risk factors than doubled rope. That's the main thing to acknowledge.
The cutting issue on base tie is simply that the base leg is often right down the trunk, could be partly concealed in vines and a climber moving fast, especially if SRT is kind of new might forget the rope is there. At least a couple of guys have cut themselves out of trees reaching around to knock off a limb on the way up or down. It's not as obvious as the rope that's right in front of you (whether doubled or single rope).
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I agree. You Absolutely must know where your rope is, all parts of it, and where your saw is. I have cut strands just barely touching the dope with my hands as blade. Not while cutting a branch, but reaching out to cut one. If I ever do hit it while using the force of cutting a branch, I will.be making a quick trip to the ground.
 
oldoakman said:
I agree. You Absolutely must know where your rope is, all parts of it, and where your saw is. I have cut strands just barely touching the dope with my hands as blade. Not while cutting a branch, but reaching out to cut one. If I ever do hit it while using the force of cutting a branch, I will.be making a quick trip to the ground.
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Oakman, I know you have the experience over me ten-fold, but shouldn't a second tie in be in place while cutting? Wether it be a 2nd line or lanyard? Especially when cutting near the climbing line. This was something that was preached to me in my early years. All the safety practices still ring in my head today.
 
96coal449 said:
Oakman, I know you have the experience over me ten-fold, but shouldn't a second tie in be in place while cutting? Wether it be a 2nd line or lanyard? Especially when cutting near the climbing line. This was something that was preached to me in my early years. All the safety practices still ring in my head today.
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Absolutely correct, and I was. I just wanted to bring out the fact that a mere touch with a pruning saw will sever the braid fibers when under tension of the climbers weight. That will happen SRT or DDRT. Seems to me to be a little touchier with SRT though.
 
oldoakman said:
Absolutely correct, and I was. I just wanted to bring out the fact that a mere touch with a pruning saw will sever the braid fibers when under tension of the climbers weight. That will happen SRT or DDRT. Seems to me to be a little touchier with SRT though.
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Maybe the drt is dividing the weight or tension in half? In other words, is a single line stressed 2x as much as one half of a double system? The gears in my head NEVER stop turning. lol
 
Almost correct. In a ddrt system each leg of the climbing line is supporting approximately half the climbers weight and in an SRT base anchored system each leg is supporting the entire weight of the climber. Anchor points are critical for larger climbers. Sharp things near ropes must be avoided!
 
Levi.CO said:
I see the point about the base tie but I wish people would move away from the myths about doubled force, especially without a mention of wood compression as Jon and others have pointed out countless times.
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Exactly Levi.

In reallity on a base tie you are applying somewhere around 1,4 time your body weight on a limb depending on the scenario. The friction create by your rope around different limb between you and your top anchor on a base tie is the key in reducing force apply on the anchor. We all prefer having a clean ascent straight up the tree , but in reallity this is where friction really help us. Same has if you take a fall on a base tie there is actually more rope in the systeme to absorb this energy , so if you are climbing on a kermaster your anchor might not feel more load than a fall on a Ddrt system , because on a Ddrt set up you won't have this elongation that take out some energy....We had a SRT workshop 2 month ago here in Montreal and the instructor (the most knowledgeable climber in Quebec) demonstrate all that , it was really interesting.
 
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