First Day of class and everyone is learning a lot.
Wish you were here!
Wish you were here!
Splicing Symposium Rocks!
- Thread starter John_Hartenburg
- Start date
Instructor Josh Jump proving that Bailout rope can be spliced as a Class 1 splice!
HE IS THE MAN!!!
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
John, Josh is the man. Can you do that with HRC as well? I was looking at Sampson's splicing guide and it says use a class II for core dependent ropes. Is there a reason for this? I like the look of the class I and you dont have to wory about the core picking. Thanks
Two Symposium big mouths gettin down to business at dinner....
By the way, to answer the above question about the possibility of doing a class 1 splice on HRC....
You might be able to do it, but that splice does require a class 2 splice, not a class 1 double braid splice.
That Bailout thing was just the result of a hard fought battle to make a class 1 splice on that rope. That rope won't be seeing any climbing..
You might be able to do it, but that splice does require a class 2 splice, not a class 1 double braid splice.
That Bailout thing was just the result of a hard fought battle to make a class 1 splice on that rope. That rope won't be seeing any climbing..
- Location
- Lexington, Kentucky
Glad to see it's going good John! Keep up the good work.
[ QUOTE ]
...I was looking at Sampson's splicing guide and it says use a class II for core dependent ropes. Is there a reason for this? I like the look of the class I and you dont have to wory about the core picking. Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference between Class I and Class II has to do with the type of material. The much slicker and stronger hi-tech materials in Class II need longer buries in order to hold right up to the breaking strength of the rope. We are not talking about optional styles of splicing here but actual engineering requirements! Be safe and follow the instructions!
...I was looking at Sampson's splicing guide and it says use a class II for core dependent ropes. Is there a reason for this? I like the look of the class I and you dont have to wory about the core picking. Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference between Class I and Class II has to do with the type of material. The much slicker and stronger hi-tech materials in Class II need longer buries in order to hold right up to the breaking strength of the rope. We are not talking about optional styles of splicing here but actual engineering requirements! Be safe and follow the instructions!
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
"I use a lot of fixed loops, eye-2-eyes and so on that have substandard bury lengths that I know to be safe because I have tested them or because I always use them for a specific application in a specific configuration that makes them safe. I would not trust them in some more general application and would not want them to fall into the hands of someone who might not use them the way I do.
We're talking engineering here. Engineer your splices so they perform the intended job. Don't add anything you don't need, and don't leave anything out!"
Moray,
Your quote from the testing thread. You tell me on this thread to stick to instructions but in the testing thread you say "Engineer your splices so they perform the intended job". Just had the question because I used to see them, Core in cover Eyes. Is that the only reason they stopped was to get the splice to full capacity of the rope? How much were they loosing with the class 1 splice?
We're talking engineering here. Engineer your splices so they perform the intended job. Don't add anything you don't need, and don't leave anything out!"
Moray,
Your quote from the testing thread. You tell me on this thread to stick to instructions but in the testing thread you say "Engineer your splices so they perform the intended job". Just had the question because I used to see them, Core in cover Eyes. Is that the only reason they stopped was to get the splice to full capacity of the rope? How much were they loosing with the class 1 splice?
Manufacturer Instructions
FlyingSquirrel, with all due respect, your comment to which I replied seemed to indicate you weren't even clear about the meaning of Class I and Class II. Hence alarm bells went off in my head. "Warn this guy," I thought, "he doesn't sound like he knows what he is doing." My apologies if I was wrong about that. In a public forum like this I feel free to describe my experiments and my own practice, but I can't in good conscience advise people to ignore manufacturer recommendations.
Obviously you can do whatever you want. If you decide to use a shorter Class I splice where a Class II splice is called for, you are entering the realm of engineering, and I hope you know what you are doing.
The HRC in the testing thread was spliced in the same way people splice 8mm Bee-Line. It is easy to splice the Vectran core, which is a Class II material, so people splice that and leave the cover on for chafe protection. It is much simpler than a core-dependant splice in which both cover and core are involved in the splice. I think the question you are raising isn't about Class I vs Class II, but about the true core-dependent splice vs the simple bury splice. Do New England Ropes (HRC) and Yale Cordage (Bee-Line) approve of the core-only bury splices people are using? I don't know. If they don't that doesn't necessarily mean the practice is unsafe, but it does mean you have left the reliable world of rope-manufacturer testing and entered the realm of end-user engineering.
A footnote: In my break tests of Bee-Line, I tested the core by itself (broke at 9560 lb) and the cover by itself (broke at 6020 lb). Yale specifies the tensile strength of the rope at 8000 lb. Remove the 6000-lb cover from an 8000-lb rope and you are left with a 9600-lb core. Go figure.
FlyingSquirrel, with all due respect, your comment to which I replied seemed to indicate you weren't even clear about the meaning of Class I and Class II. Hence alarm bells went off in my head. "Warn this guy," I thought, "he doesn't sound like he knows what he is doing." My apologies if I was wrong about that. In a public forum like this I feel free to describe my experiments and my own practice, but I can't in good conscience advise people to ignore manufacturer recommendations.
Obviously you can do whatever you want. If you decide to use a shorter Class I splice where a Class II splice is called for, you are entering the realm of engineering, and I hope you know what you are doing.
The HRC in the testing thread was spliced in the same way people splice 8mm Bee-Line. It is easy to splice the Vectran core, which is a Class II material, so people splice that and leave the cover on for chafe protection. It is much simpler than a core-dependant splice in which both cover and core are involved in the splice. I think the question you are raising isn't about Class I vs Class II, but about the true core-dependent splice vs the simple bury splice. Do New England Ropes (HRC) and Yale Cordage (Bee-Line) approve of the core-only bury splices people are using? I don't know. If they don't that doesn't necessarily mean the practice is unsafe, but it does mean you have left the reliable world of rope-manufacturer testing and entered the realm of end-user engineering.
A footnote: In my break tests of Bee-Line, I tested the core by itself (broke at 9560 lb) and the cover by itself (broke at 6020 lb). Yale specifies the tensile strength of the rope at 8000 lb. Remove the 6000-lb cover from an 8000-lb rope and you are left with a 9600-lb core. Go figure.
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
Re: Manufacturer Instructions
I guess we both have the same questions. Does NE ropes, yale, and other rope cos approve of the core only splice? Thanks for your explanation, but I think the question I am raising it Class I vs. Class II. I think. The class II just does not make me feel good or comfortable. I guess the next step it to try one, splice it up (class I) and send it to John and see what happens. I dont know what will happen. Im curious. Has anyone done it and had it tested?
I guess we both have the same questions. Does NE ropes, yale, and other rope cos approve of the core only splice? Thanks for your explanation, but I think the question I am raising it Class I vs. Class II. I think. The class II just does not make me feel good or comfortable. I guess the next step it to try one, splice it up (class I) and send it to John and see what happens. I dont know what will happen. Im curious. Has anyone done it and had it tested?
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: Manufacturer Instructions
[ QUOTE ]
Does NE ropes, yale, and other rope cos approve of the core only splice?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they do. I check with Yale about Beeline and NER about HRC about once a year.
Both consitently recommend the same thing: locked brummel, tail 6" long, barber taper last 2". Whip cover over throat of splice.
SSS pic look awesome!!!
love
nick
[ QUOTE ]
Does NE ropes, yale, and other rope cos approve of the core only splice?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they do. I check with Yale about Beeline and NER about HRC about once a year.
Both consitently recommend the same thing: locked brummel, tail 6" long, barber taper last 2". Whip cover over throat of splice.
SSS pic look awesome!!!
love
nick
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
Re: Manufacturer Instructions
Thanks Nick that helps me feel more comfortable with them. I can ever get anything out of the rope co's.
Being the resident splicing expert: have you ever tried the class I on ropes such as HRC, or Bee Line?
Thanks Nick that helps me feel more comfortable with them. I can ever get anything out of the rope co's.
Being the resident splicing expert: have you ever tried the class I on ropes such as HRC, or Bee Line?
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: Manufacturer Instructions
Have I tried them? Yes. It's very easy to do and they look really good. But in break testing they only do "alright." Granted, they do better than a lot of the polyester hitch cords I've climbed on...but knowing that it was designed so we could get way more than 5,000 pounds out of it makes me wanna stick with the proper splice.
Not only that, and maybe this is the biggest reason, the standard double braid splice makes the throat of the splice a lot thicker. The proper splice just works better as an eye-eye cord.
love
nick
Have I tried them? Yes. It's very easy to do and they look really good. But in break testing they only do "alright." Granted, they do better than a lot of the polyester hitch cords I've climbed on...but knowing that it was designed so we could get way more than 5,000 pounds out of it makes me wanna stick with the proper splice.
Not only that, and maybe this is the biggest reason, the standard double braid splice makes the throat of the splice a lot thicker. The proper splice just works better as an eye-eye cord.
love
nick
[image]http://gallery.me.com/msauls#100097[/image]
I WONDER IF THE PHOTO POSTED?
2010 SS WAS GREAT. HERE'S MY FIRST PROJECT THE WINCH LINE ON THE 1800. NE ENDURA....DIDN'T EXACTLY FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES SPLICING INSTRUCTIONS, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT WILL WORK. WHAT DO YOU BOYS THINK? LOOKS LIKE A 12 STAND HMPE CORE WITH A 24 STRAND COVER. DID NOT WANT TO ATTEMPT A DB SPLICE WITH USED LINE. GOTTA LET MY BLISTERS HEAL BEFORE ATTEMPTING THAT.
I WONDER IF THE PHOTO POSTED?
2010 SS WAS GREAT. HERE'S MY FIRST PROJECT THE WINCH LINE ON THE 1800. NE ENDURA....DIDN'T EXACTLY FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES SPLICING INSTRUCTIONS, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT WILL WORK. WHAT DO YOU BOYS THINK? LOOKS LIKE A 12 STAND HMPE CORE WITH A 24 STRAND COVER. DID NOT WANT TO ATTEMPT A DB SPLICE WITH USED LINE. GOTTA LET MY BLISTERS HEAL BEFORE ATTEMPTING THAT.
marlinspiker
Participating member
- Location
- Pennsyltucky
when is the next symposium and how can one get involved?
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