I recently refused a medium to large Red Oak removal next to a house. In my opinion the tree had no good reason to be cut. Roof damage from leaves or leaves in a yard are not good reasons and I'm sick and f in tired of people and their disregard to trees and their importance. Although it took me quite some time to feel strongly enough about this to actually refuse removing a tree. I wont have any part in disrespect of that level to the earth and environment. I know its just one tree and we do so much worse, but I'd like to start somewhere. I bid the tree for maintenance work, and would not recommend anyone for removal when asked.
Specialist
- Thread starter CHOPPER
- Start date
Ghandi is quoted "be the change you wish to see in the world". I like how that quote applies to some of the statements in this thread. When a perfectly healthy tree is under the dark cloud of removal spawned by an unknowledgable owner, it feels best to me to offer options other than removal. It feels even better when you can educate a client to the point of turning that removal into multiple return visits in the future for continued care. The more the average homeowner is asked why they want to remove the tree, the more they will think twice about it, and the more the 'hacks' will look like hacks.
By like others also said here, there is a real adrenaline rush that comes from large, technical rigged dismantles. I have to say, it can feel pretty good, just a bit different from the nice feelings you get after good PHC.
By like others also said here, there is a real adrenaline rush that comes from large, technical rigged dismantles. I have to say, it can feel pretty good, just a bit different from the nice feelings you get after good PHC.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Good for you Tanglehorn! The first time I did that it felt wrong...for about ten minutes. Then...whew...what a powerful rush! Knowing that my decision was the best for everything except the temporary landowner anyway 
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
To imagine a yard without turf, covered in trees wouldn't that be perfect. That's where I work. Recreational properties that had shacks on posts and trail driveways where you had to be careful not to take off the mirror because no trees were cut down. There management plan for these trees was to let them fall down because dead trees are beautiful too. They like to leave them til they're just maybe safe for a climber and ready to fall in the next wind. Meantime all around them they are logging every tree that has a use.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
I bid the tree for maintenance work, and would not recommend anyone for removal when asked.
[/ QUOTE ]Sound slike my general strategy; $X for specified maintenance, and a guess for how long before more is needed, and a prorating of the cost/year.
Then I offer a bid for removal; something like $99,999.99 When asked why so much? i say that I have to factor in the value of the tree, as I am responsible for the economic and ecological loss to the land and the community. (If they get nasty i say aw gee i kept it under $100k as a personal favor, and walk. re referrals, i point to the yellow pages.)
Using the A300 standards, i try to define the objective based on owner goals, then specify work to meet the objective. Once they are asked to define their goals, and they think a little, the light bulb often goes on re tree value for owners, and they realize that removal is not the only way to meet their goals.
Getting that message through to some owners and many urban loggers is not always possible, but making the effort makes it more likely later on. Paul Bunyan will not be buried in one day.
Removalism loses its appeal when you learn that most condemnations are based on scientifically whacko criteria, bad judgments, and kneejerk sociopolitical causes.
I bid the tree for maintenance work, and would not recommend anyone for removal when asked.
[/ QUOTE ]Sound slike my general strategy; $X for specified maintenance, and a guess for how long before more is needed, and a prorating of the cost/year.
Then I offer a bid for removal; something like $99,999.99 When asked why so much? i say that I have to factor in the value of the tree, as I am responsible for the economic and ecological loss to the land and the community. (If they get nasty i say aw gee i kept it under $100k as a personal favor, and walk. re referrals, i point to the yellow pages.)
Using the A300 standards, i try to define the objective based on owner goals, then specify work to meet the objective. Once they are asked to define their goals, and they think a little, the light bulb often goes on re tree value for owners, and they realize that removal is not the only way to meet their goals.
Getting that message through to some owners and many urban loggers is not always possible, but making the effort makes it more likely later on. Paul Bunyan will not be buried in one day.
Removalism loses its appeal when you learn that most condemnations are based on scientifically whacko criteria, bad judgments, and kneejerk sociopolitical causes.
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
I'm sensing a trend amoungst arborists that killing a tree is a bad thing. How many CAs make their living by doing removals. Then there's the uncertified tree services and whatever the parttimers are. All making a living doing tree killing.
Everyone's goal is to improve a tree workers image and level of professionalism so we can charge more money and get that respect. The current direction includes removal safety and luckily I got proper training through people involved with the ISA climbing comps.
Tree killing is a LARGE part of "tree care industry" revenue. That a couple of fringe members of the group can make a living spraying fertilizer and straigtening out roots is great but lets stick to the facts.
Good removal work is underpaid and the public is unaware of the skill.
Everyone's goal is to improve a tree workers image and level of professionalism so we can charge more money and get that respect. The current direction includes removal safety and luckily I got proper training through people involved with the ISA climbing comps.
Tree killing is a LARGE part of "tree care industry" revenue. That a couple of fringe members of the group can make a living spraying fertilizer and straigtening out roots is great but lets stick to the facts.
Good removal work is underpaid and the public is unaware of the skill.
Does a client with a large oak over their house that has a Ganoderma or Armillaria infection eating away at their tree's basal support get a more reasonable removal estimate from you Guy?
jomoco
jomoco
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
The real specialist is the one who gets twice the loot with out the crane . There is a whole mind set that trees can't be removed safely with out a crane , even in land locked areas. Think about it , a lot of trees were removed with out cranes . With out fancy rigging , with out illeagals , you got to make that call ,or give it up . Keep saving your trees , It'll come down , it's not that special . Wind , disease , in the way , matter of time . Guy , you can take a tree down , but thats not your speciality , if you think it is , think again . I am a hit man , I don;t even care to know what you know Guy , but I hope you know the difference. Don't try and be what your not , because real is real .
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Jon, they wouldn't get an estimate but a referral.
Rigger, lots of ways to make a livin'. one man's burnout is another man's groove. Different strokes. but when it comes to trees, I follow along with Clint Eastwood and Josey Wales:
"Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy."
A rising tide lifts all boats, even the outlaws.
Rigger, lots of ways to make a livin'. one man's burnout is another man's groove. Different strokes. but when it comes to trees, I follow along with Clint Eastwood and Josey Wales:
"Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy."
A rising tide lifts all boats, even the outlaws.
Wind wont throw this tree. Disease hasn't yet. It may be in the way of a whacked off idea that trees aren't that special though
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
I have one for the 20th of next month that the crane co turned down....too tall, too dead and too may wires. No mystery in how to rig it. More having the balls to do it.
Don't shake it any more than necessary to speedline it Reg!
Pics please?
jomoco
Pics please?
jomoco
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
Don't shake it any more than necessary to speedline it Reg!
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll get some video, and you're absolutely right.
Don't shake it any more than necessary to speedline it Reg!
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll get some video, and you're absolutely right.
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
Reg-
What species? Lombardy poplar? That is what I pictured when you first posted. Those trees can be some serious fun when really dead.
What species? Lombardy poplar? That is what I pictured when you first posted. Those trees can be some serious fun when really dead.
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
As a contract climber a huge part of my business comes from being a hired gun for technical removals. Like Chopper I take great pride and enjoy the process of technical rigging in tight locations and trying to figure out the puzzle of how to get the tree down safely and efficiently. At times I have been burned out on just endless killing and on a few occasions have almost walked away from senseless removals. The only reason I haven't is because the company owners who I work for are also very good friends and I wouldn't want to put them in a bad place. I make my feelings well known though about the ethical dilema.
I am of the opinion that trees are a societal resource and should be managed as such. Senseless removals for short term gain of a client or clients who might own their properties for a limited amount of time affects the character and environment of a neighborhood. When those removals are compounded, a whole region can be affected. Trees are just another part of our ecosystem that are undervalued by society.
I am of the opinion that trees are a societal resource and should be managed as such. Senseless removals for short term gain of a client or clients who might own their properties for a limited amount of time affects the character and environment of a neighborhood. When those removals are compounded, a whole region can be affected. Trees are just another part of our ecosystem that are undervalued by society.
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
We've had these cities in North America for less than 200 years many areas about 50-70 years old. That's the amount of time for a tree to out grow it's welcome. Maybe the next tree will be better.
Hey RC, I agree there's a bitter irony to cutting down hundreds of healthy old trees just to widen a county hwy to the just opened Indian Gaming Casino, and believe me, the state get's their cut of the loot from the marks in their I can win trance.
Et too Tonto?
jomoco
Et too Tonto?
jomoco
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
Tree care can be whatever crap you can sell to the unsuspecting consumer. There is alot of room there for ethical differences.
Even the best arborist has to walk up to some trees and say yup it's got to come down. For those trees a tree dismanteling specialist may be required. The jobs have varying skill levels but the most mundane felling of a small tree has the potential to kill. Anyway bla bla bla I like doing it too.
Even the best arborist has to walk up to some trees and say yup it's got to come down. For those trees a tree dismanteling specialist may be required. The jobs have varying skill levels but the most mundane felling of a small tree has the potential to kill. Anyway bla bla bla I like doing it too.
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
you are no Clint Eastwood . no Josey Wales , you know trees though , I'll give you that . Is what it is , you don't got it . either does your buddy Daniel . Keep playing and praying , The doctor , the judge , the executioner , certain people need to do certain things . If You and Daniel are Specialist , than what am I ? Bullsh8T AND cASH DON'T MAKE YOU A SPECIALIST !!! BANG ! feel me ? jus a little .... bunch of used car salesman! and I'm keeping it pg 13 !
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy.
Likker will kill ya quicker.
Marilyn was the real pro
Lyrics to Specialization :
(Frankie Vaughn)
If you peruse the people in the news,
The people that the magazines refer to.
(Marilyn Monroe)
You'll find that they are naturally soigné,
The special ones that all of us refer to.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They've each a trait that seems to state first raters.
(Marilyn Monroe)
That separates them from the small potaters.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Maria Callas
Is booked in Dallas.
The carpet's rolled out and they're sold out clear to the skies.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They'll love your high notes if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
When Elvis rotates,
Each creep notates.
It may look funny,
But the money's what it supplies.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
You'll meet the colonel if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Salome did it with veils.
Abe Lincoln did it with rails.
Toledo did it with scales
The Chinese built that Wall.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialized star.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Marc Clement gives gals the tremors.
This Casanova sure has the roverest eyes.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
You'll rule the barnyard if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
The Farrows did it with springs.
And Darwin did it with links.
Some robbers did it with Brinks.
Carnegie used a Hall.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialized star.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Van Cliberen caused us a high burn.
While we were blushin'
Some Russian gave him the prize.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They'll give you medals if,
They'll love your high notes if,
You'll meet the Colonel if,
You'll rule the barnyard if,
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize!
I specialize.
Likker will kill ya quicker.
Marilyn was the real pro
Lyrics to Specialization :
(Frankie Vaughn)
If you peruse the people in the news,
The people that the magazines refer to.
(Marilyn Monroe)
You'll find that they are naturally soigné,
The special ones that all of us refer to.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They've each a trait that seems to state first raters.
(Marilyn Monroe)
That separates them from the small potaters.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Maria Callas
Is booked in Dallas.
The carpet's rolled out and they're sold out clear to the skies.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They'll love your high notes if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
When Elvis rotates,
Each creep notates.
It may look funny,
But the money's what it supplies.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
You'll meet the colonel if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Salome did it with veils.
Abe Lincoln did it with rails.
Toledo did it with scales
The Chinese built that Wall.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialized star.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Marc Clement gives gals the tremors.
This Casanova sure has the roverest eyes.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
You'll rule the barnyard if
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize.
(Frankie Vaughn)
The Farrows did it with springs.
And Darwin did it with links.
Some robbers did it with Brinks.
Carnegie used a Hall.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialized star.
(Frankie Vaughn)
Van Cliberen caused us a high burn.
While we were blushin'
Some Russian gave him the prize.
(Marilyn Monroe)
Specialization, specialization.
(Frankie Vaughn)
They'll give you medals if,
They'll love your high notes if,
You'll meet the Colonel if,
You'll rule the barnyard if,
(Marilyn Monroe)
If you specialize!
I specialize.
