*Solo rigging* Whatcha using? Swivel Bail Shackle and similar methods/?

[southsoundtree]

Figuring on stable-braid. Haven't looked into it, really.

 

[Jehinten]

Anyone have these solo rigging techniques on video? I can kind of picture it but a video or some pictures would help

I tried a video today of one of my rigging techniques listed above. Suffice to say it turned out terrible as I was holding my cellphone in one hand and running the rope in the other. Here is a pic of that rigging pictured above setup and ready for the cut. Once you lower it just shake the rope to release the sling and pull it back up for the next piece.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Small solo job coming up with a tall-ish straight pine, about 90' or so, but surrounded by some low shrubs and a wooden fence. Beyond the wooden fence, there is a natural/wooded area that debris can be placed in. Longest limb might be 12'-15' long or so, and maybe 5" dia. at the stem, judging from the ground.

I could sling/biner everything to itself, cut and let it hang, then dice and chuck. BUT, this seems like it could be a really good scenario for a climber-tensioned speedline. What do y'all think? The fence that needs to be cleared is just a couple feet from the bottom of the tree and only about 4' tall, and there are tons of anchor options out past that.

To that end, I've been exploring how to tension it in a way that causes me to not have to use a bunch of hardware that I have to remove and reinstall every time I move up the tree.

I think tensioning by hand with no MA will probably be enough for any size I'll want to cut, but I also have been trying to think about options for applying tension in scenarios where more is needed.

1) Tensioning with no MA and hardware (not pictured): bring the speedline itself up, around the tree at the desired anchor position, apply as much tension as I can pull into it, then tie it off back to itself.

2) Tensioning with no MA, but with a low-friction redirect: bring speedline up through sling/biner or ISC Rigging Rope Wrench anchored on tree, then tie it back to itself. This is the option I'm leaning towards since only one sling is needed on tree (for RnW). RnW will assist with tensioning by lowering friction and increasing efficacy of pull.

3) Tensioning with no MA, but with upper redirect and sling/biner/prussik below that for progress capture while tensioning (lower of the two setups shown below - with green little prussik).

4) Tensioning with 3:1 MA: too much crap in the tree, but I guess that's how I'd set it up if that much tension was necessary.





Columnar loading on climber-tensioned speedline setup

Consider the diagram below: speedline is brought from the anchor point (right side of below diagram), up to climber, through a pulley, then back down to an anchor opposite the terminal anchor but half the distance to the base of the tree as the speedline terminus (distance z vs. 2z), through a pulley at that position, and then back up to the climber. Orange colored rope in diagram would probably be a second rigging rope joined end-to-end with the speedline, necessary when progressing higher up the stem since 3 legs of rope are required - obviously, knot joining the two lines would have to be on the orange side of that second pulley (left).

The purpose is to reduce side-loading but also have the system be able to be advanced up the stem and tensioned by the climber.

Obviously, the angles/distances of the two lower anchors would be different than this 'ideal' diagram shows (z vs. 2z) since friction in the pulleys and sag/stretch in the speedline will bring the effective terminal anchor (right bottom) closer to the tree (distance 2z will be something less than 2z in reality once the weight of the piece is placed into it). However, is this idea sound? Namely, distance z is decreased to the anchor on the climber-tensioned side (orange/red, left bottom) since there are two legs, each ideally transmitting a force equal to the right side's single leg.

x and y are simply the horizontal and vertical components of the force vectors along each of those legs of line. I didn't go through the exercise of working out what the left side's legs' vertical component would be, since that's loading the stem in compression and I know it'll be greater than 1x and less than 3x the right side, and it also depends on the height at which that upper pulley is anchored at as well (meaning, it increases force at the highest point as the height increases up the stem).

 

[LordFarkwad]

Would it be better to make this a new thread?

 

[Jonny]

Would it be better to make this a new thread?

I think it’s great seeing older threads bumped that previously had some bright ideas and good conversation. I did see this thread before, but there’s probably a bunch of folks that haven’t.

 

[LordFarkwad]

I think it’s great seeing older threads bumped that previously had some bright ideas and good conversation. I did see this thread before, but there’s probably a bunch of folks that haven’t.

I hope I've not resurrected it via taking a dump on it then xD

 

[colb]

Small solo job coming up with a tall-ish straight pine, about 90' or so, but surrounded by some low shrubs and a wooden fence. Beyond the wooden fence, there is a natural/wooded area that debris can be placed in. Longest limb might be 12'-15' long or so, and maybe 5" dia. at the stem, judging from the ground.

I could sling/biner everything to itself, cut and let it hang, then dice and chuck. BUT, this seems like it could be a really good scenario for a climber-tensioned speedline. What do y'all think? The fence that needs to be cleared is just a couple feet from the bottom of the tree and only about 4' tall, and there are tons of anchor options out past that.

To that end, I've been exploring how to tension it in a way that causes me to not have to use a bunch of hardware that I have to remove and reinstall every time I move up the tree.

I think tensioning by hand with no MA will probably be enough for any size I'll want to cut, but I also have been trying to think about options for applying tension in scenarios where more is needed.

1) Tensioning with no MA and hardware (not pictured): bring the speedline itself up, around the tree at the desired anchor position, apply as much tension as I can pull into it, then tie it off back to itself.

2) Tensioning with no MA, but with a low-friction redirect: bring speedline up through sling/biner or ISC Rigging Rope Wrench anchored on tree, then tie it back to itself. This is the option I'm leaning towards since only one sling is needed on tree (for RnW). RnW will assist with tensioning by lowering friction and increasing efficacy of pull.

3) Tensioning with no MA, but with upper redirect and sling/biner/prussik below that for progress capture while tensioning (lower of the two setups shown below - with green little prussik).

4) Tensioning with 3:1 MA: too much crap in the tree, but I guess that's how I'd set it up if that much tension was necessary.

View attachment 68373



Columnar loading on climber-tensioned speedline setup

Consider the diagram below: speedline is brought from the anchor point (right side of below diagram), up to climber, through a pulley, then back down to an anchor opposite the terminal anchor but half the distance to the base of the tree as the speedline terminus (distance z vs. 2z), through a pulley at that position, and then back up to the climber. Orange colored rope in diagram would probably be a second rigging rope joined end-to-end with the speedline, necessary when progressing higher up the stem since 3 legs of rope are required - obviously, knot joining the two lines would have to be on the orange side of that second pulley (left).

The purpose is to reduce side-loading but also have the system be able to be advanced up the stem and tensioned by the climber.

Obviously, the angles/distances of the two lower anchors would be different than this 'ideal' diagram shows (z vs. 2z) since friction in the pulleys and sag/stretch in the speedline will bring the effective terminal anchor (right bottom) closer to the tree (distance 2z will be something less than 2z in reality once the weight of the piece is placed into it). However, is this idea sound? Namely, distance z is decreased to the anchor on the climber-tensioned side (orange/red, left bottom) since there are two legs, each ideally transmitting a force equal to the right side's single leg.

x and y are simply the horizontal and vertical components of the force vectors along each of those legs of line. I didn't go through the exercise of working out what the left side's legs' vertical component would be, since that's loading the stem in compression and I know it'll be greater than 1x and less than 3x the right side, and it also depends on the height at which that upper pulley is anchored at as well (meaning, it increases force at the highest point as the height increases up the stem).


View attachment 68374

It seems like you could incorporate either a cmi rope jack or RE aztec setup into a speedline system like this. I am not sure of the details of yours here, but I'm envisioning climbing to the top of the pine to set a omni 2.0 pulley, then installing speedline slings on the way back down to a hitch/rope jack or aztec pulley system, tightening it there, cutting, leaving the pulley and hitch in place, taking the rope jack up with you, jacking, cutting, etc. probably something that will illuminate itself while you're in tree, but have a backup plan.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Definitely could incorporate those in what I'm envisioning easily. I don't *think* I'll need that much tension with how close a suitable drop zone is and how long the obstacles are relative to the lowest limbs.

Just pre-gaming it at this point, but I'm thinking of installing this about 5' or less above the several limbs I want to drop from a given position, hooking those up, tensioning the line, and cutting them loose. Then move the anchor up to the next stopping point, and repeat.

I honestly have never been part of a speedline operation tho so I don't know how it works. I'm interesting in where you're saying that you set the top omniblock redirect first. I see why you'd have to progressively tension the line as you moved up the tree. But it seems like if you anchored 50' above your lowest limb and then started sending the lowest limbs, you'd have a crap load of slack in the line initially. Then, as you worked farther and farther up the tree back towards the omni, you'd eventually have less and less slack. Am I understanding this correctly?

I will draw exactly what I'm thinking when I get a moment this evening.

It seems like you could incorporate either a cmi rope jack or RE aztec setup into a speedline system like this. I am not sure of the details of yours here, but I'm envisioning climbing to the top of the pine to set a omni 2.0 pulley, then installing speedline slings on the way back down to a hitch/rope jack or aztec pulley system, tightening it there, cutting, leaving the pulley and hitch in place, taking the rope jack up with you, jacking, cutting, etc. probably something that will illuminate itself while you're in tree, but have a backup plan.

 

[colb]

You also get strength from leveraging the whole vertical section of the spar to help with sideloading caused by multiple branches. But, I'm wondering if the combo of having more branches and less strength as you proceed up the spar would be misleading in a dangerous way... Reminds me of a day I spent spraying cattails from a canoe with another guy and a 30 gallon spray tank. We did great at first, but at the end it got tipsy and I went overboard because my ballast was sprayed out, lol.

Also, I think the aztec is worse because there might not be enough line to tension enough from bottom to top. Maybe use the rigging line for the ma, or use the rope jack.

 

[LordFarkwad]

I'm thinking about this more. I like your idea - I could anchor one redirect pulley at the top of the tree (I don't own an Omni, but I do own some Pintos...ok for this purpose, even with the small sheave? I'm using either Yale XTC Fire 16 strand or 1/2" true blue as my rigging line), and another redirect local to my work position with the speedline through it. Then, sling, tension the speedline, and cut all the local limbs.

The speedline redirect at the work position will hold the line with a consistent tension until I'm finished with the limbs local to that position.

Then, when done there, I move up to the next suitable place, reinstall the lower redirect, sling the limbs to cut, tension everything up, and let em fly. I'm wondering about bodyweight tensioning then just tying off to a stub, at the moment.

Does it sound like I'm following you, @colb?

 

[LordFarkwad]

I'm watching an August video, and it looks like he anchored the speedline up high then went back down to work up the tree. The limbs at his current work position that are already slung and attached to the speedline are serving the function of what I am calling the "lower redirect". I suppose in my example, it could be as simple as a sling and biner, not necessarily a pulley. But the pulley I suppose would allow more efficient tensioning.

 

[LordFarkwad]

Example. Is this clown shoes stupid and over-complicating it?

The tension-holding sling/prusik and redirect sling/pulley (or sling/biner) would be moved up the tree and stationed local to each group of limbs I want to take, until I'm on the last limb.

Edit: I could even tension this with bodyweight using a foot ascender or something.

Alternatively, would it end up being better to just carry the end of the speedline with me and just tie it as tightly as I can around the tree? This isn't massive weights we're talking about.

Initially:


Then at the top:

 

[TCtreeswinger]

Reg also has a very informative zip video

 

[colb]

I'm thinking about this more. I like your idea - I could anchor one redirect pulley at the top of the tree (I don't own an Omni, but I do own some Pintos...ok for this purpose, even with the small sheave? I'm using either Yale XTC Fire 16 strand or 1/2" true blue as my rigging line), and another redirect local to my work position with the speedline through it. Then, sling, tension the speedline, and cut all the local limbs.

The speedline redirect at the work position will hold the line with a consistent tension until I'm finished with the limbs local to that position.

Then, when done there, I move up to the next suitable place, reinstall the lower redirect, sling the limbs to cut, tension everything up, and let em fly. I'm wondering about bodyweight tensioning then just tying off to a stub, at the moment.

Does it sound like I'm following you, @colb?

I know I should calculate all this while at my desk, but I haven't, lol.

The main things to remember is that 1. the line will be under tension and thus immovable once the first limb is cut, 2. the line will be longer with each limb that is cut off, resulting in more sag that needs ma to overcome, and 3. the ma adjustment point needs to travel up the spar with you. #3 is the entry point for rigging innovation. I would lay your available kit out next to a sapling, start making mistakes, and take pics for the rest of us.

 

[colb]

I know I should calculate all this while at my desk, but I haven't, lol.

The main things to remember is that 1. the line will be under tension and thus immovable once the first limb is cut, 2. the line will be longer with each limb that is cut off, resulting in more sag that needs ma to overcome, and 3. the ma adjustment point needs to travel up the spar with you. #3 is the entry point for rigging innovation. I would lay your available kit out next to a sapling, start making mistakes, and take pics for the rest of us.

I'm sure you've realized all this to a large extent already. Just formalizing it for my own benefit, because listing the basic characteristics in a concise manner can add clarity to my mind...

 

[colb]

It's possible that you could tie a ropejack to a stub.

 

[LordFarkwad]

It's possible that you could tie a ropejack to a stub.

The load shouldn't be dumped into the rope jack, correct? I don't have one, but I was assuming that any tensioning device should be used to tension then removed from the system, versus leaving it in and potentially shock loading it.

 

[colb]

The load shouldn't be dumped into the rope jack, correct? I don't have one, but I was assuming that any tensioning device should be used to tension then removed from the system, versus leaving it in and potentially shock loading it.

I think the ropejack would be paired with a progress capture hitch, so the ropejack would not be bearing a load, and should not because of those teeth. If you don't have a ropejack, just try with a homemade ma system in your back yard and see what happens.

 

[LordFarkwad]

That's the best idea, with laying this out and doing it with hardware/pics. May have to get into that tonight in the garage (rain).

I think it's at least possible that tensioning it with bodweight in this case might be enough...? The MA is what really seems to complicate the hardware and what needs to be moved.

Here's a couple of the simplest ideas. 1) There is no upper redirect at the top of the tree in these; the Pinto/Omni is just moved upwards with climber. 2) The progress capture for the main speedline is in line with the line itself. I'm hoping this could be kept pretty compact so that you don't lose several feet of useable line from all the hardware at the top (block/pulley, prussik).

Edit: I have no idea why I chose to draw the carabiner in one instance and not in another.



In this diagram with a 2:1, the prussik joining the MA to the speedline could instead be a simple slip knot tied in the speedline and then the pulley joined to it.

 

[LordFarkwad]

A couple ideas tried at ground level. Whatcha think?

All of these configurations had the common element of a Ultrasling + steel biner + tending pulley + prussik for progress capture and holding the speedline tension. In the below photo, speedline is to the right, tail is to the bottom, if it's not obvious.





1) No mechanical advantage; applying bodyweight to tail of speedline using foot ascender. Worked pretty well. As with all schemes involving tensioning the tail after the redirect, there is a limit to how much tension can be applied because the rope only moves when the redirect itself had traveled as low as it can while force is being applied. No photos.



2) Tensioning inline 3:1 using a CT RollNLock + Petzl Rollclip Z. Simple, least gear intensive MA. Pull is applied back towards trunk, but ergonomics might kill this one when in the tree. I think this could be tensioned wither before or after slings are attached, but I'm not positive. Once tensioned up, before cutting, the RnL and RCZ are removed.





3) Using tail of speedline to construct 3:1, but after redirect. Constructed using an additional anchor sling + Petzl Rollclip Z + CT RollNLock + redirect pulley (Pinto in this case) + carabiner. Not as efficient as the inline 3:1, but more ergonomic for climber.





4) Building 3:1 tensioner on tail of speedline after redirect using one end of double-ended lanyard. Utilizes lanyard + Petzl Rollclip Z + additional anchor sling + CT RollNLock. Lanyard adjustment end (Pinto/biner/prusik) is attached to speedline with RnL near upper redirect. Tail of lanyard goes down through Rollclip (anchored at bottom with sling) and back up to lanyard adjustment end, where it's clipped to the Pinto's becket. The speedline would be tensioned then removed before cutting.

Advantages are relatively little hardware to set up (sling, RnL, RCZ). But it isn't as efficient as the inline 3:1, and does handicap one lanyard end while tensioning.