Soil injections

nuthin_special

nuthin_special

Location
Thunder Bay, Ontario
Here's what i'd like to know:

What are you using for soil injections?

Perscription fert based on soil test.
Fert without soil test, which product.
Mycorrhyzae.
Kelp/bacteria or other?

I wish that we had some industry standards on this. I think that what i'm doing is the best option and i have some evidence to back that up but i'm just not sure.
 
Hmm, no takers huh?

I guess if it doesn't involve ropes, gear or saws then it's boring?

I've done a lot of reading on soil science and have a very good understanding of it. Unfortunately most people don't want to invest in elaborate soil replacement, composting, mulching etc. They want to keep their lawn nice and green right up to the trunk. So.... soil injections are the next best thing right?

Here's what i think: Fertilizers = Bad. Myc and products to feed the soil food web = good.

I'm talking to myself.
 
Sorry, I was watching for responses too.

I don't do soil injections, but I have done quite a few RCX's, turf removals, soil aerations, and composting/soil amendments.

I've done a couple soil tests for clients, and around here I find that low pH and iron deficiency seem common. I no longer use fert, only compost and woodchip mulch. I have had very good results.

I didn't answer your question, but I figured I'd comment. Maybe it'll help revive the thread.

-Tom
 
I'm a big fan of organics. I try to minimize nitro in the ferts as much as possible. Liquid humates with micro, also in conjuction with compost teas has great results. I agree lawn to the tree truck is the worst. I prefer soil drench apose injection. I saw that injection doesn't cover as much feeder roots.
 
I try to sell soil rehab but hardly anyone is willing to convert their lawn to a mulch bed. I'm making some headway in the area and certainly i'm doing and seeing far more mulching than before.

Tom, do you remove the turf manually? A sod cutter? Do you just put newspaper over the turf then compost and mulch on top of that? Maybe i need to work harder at marketing/educating that service.

Arbomex, what products are you using? I've stated using rootgrow's rhizofuel with a kelp micro nutirent product. I have no way of showing results to clients since i haven't used it long enough. Most of the time they trust my prescription but i get so much conflicting ideas from others.

I don't think that as an arborist it's ethical to sell a deadwood pruning on an obviously declining tree without doing something to encourage and improve tree growth. This is what i'm thinking that the majority of buzzers may do since i haven't gotten much feedback on this thread.
 
For turf removal, I usually encourage the HO to do it themselves if they seem capable. If not, I offer airspading (haven't actually sold any yet), or manual turf removal. The newspaper trick is my favorite, though (when applicable), and I can usually upsell other work if the HO follows through with this end of it. Of course that is for healthy trees... When the trees are stressed, I don't recommend the cheap way out, I usually recommend airspading OR soil augering, complete turf removal and composting combined with soil surface cultivation and long term deep watering (the watering is on the HO). It's too bad but completely understandable that even the most savvy HO's only call us arborists when it's almost too late. So we do what we can under these circumstances.

-Tom
 
tom, i know you just got your airspade, how do you like it? i am going to buy the air knife, i know this is not a answer but i find just using a good compost and being able to really undo the compacted soil, replace with a rich organic compost, also of course a soil test, i hardly ever use any ferts. anymore. i have tried using the rhizo-fuel products but have not used them longenough to comment on success as far as building a good soil food web. do you find it hard to sell this service?
 
Yeah, I haven't actually used it yet LOL!

I guess my typical client has a budget for tree service that they envision happening above ground. When I start with the soil spiel I can almost hear them thinking cha-ching, cha-ching!

All of the soil aeration, composting and turf removal work I have done is for the wealthier folks, and even they seem to be hedging at this time. So I wouldn't say it's difficult to sell this type of work, I just have to read the clients and work it in when I can.

-Tom
 
out of curiosity tom what are you selling this service for? p.m me if you do not want to give away your stuff, i know the competition is tough. good luck with it.
 
I try to get somewhere between $60 and $100 per man/woman-hour for my services. This type of work would fall closer to the $60 end if done manually, but once I employ the Airspade with compressor I will bump it up closer to $80 as the work will get done faster but has more overhead associated with it (Airspade, compressor).

Just for reference, a typical RCX/turf removal/soil aeration/compost has probably been somewhere between $275 and $500 (plus materials) for me. I'd have to look at my records to be sure, though.

-Tom
 
thanks tom, you are great! you always answer which i really like. how is business up your way? mine boosted this season compared to last season. next season i am offering the service as far as the air knife/spade. do you think they are worth looking for a used one or one someone does not want anymore, or just go with new?
 
Business is outta control for me, since I work full time AND run the biz... 7 days a week is getting mighty old! Next year I am planning on quitting the day job, so things should change for the better, stress and work-wise. We shall see.

I would definitely check around for a used one first, I think that some companies purchased them but don't get enough use out of them (that's how I got mine, now history is repeating itself LOL).

My plan is to make a brochure and add a page to my website to promote the service, I just haven't had the time, and don't need the extra work right now.

-Tom
 
Enjoyed reading this thread.

Over the past couple years I have tried to get more involved with this line of tree service but so far have only succeeded in adding organics through soil injection. I am skeptic about the HO's interest in the air spade service so I have held off on buying one. I wish more people would allow us to make huge mulch rings, air spade, add organics, but it seems they imagine their precious grass being destroyed. All the mulch rings I have prescribed the HO's have done the work themselves, and after the fact they realize that big mulch rings give a pristine feel to the landscape.

As for killing the grass, we have bermuda grass here and newspaper with mulch will only slow it down. So my question is: what alternatives are there? We all know HO's use round up. What are the cons to using round up? Does it further damage the soil life? If I start pushing this service I will have to invest in the air spade for sod removal because to me it just doesn't make sense to say "let me bring your soil back to its natural state, but first apply this herbicide". But on the other hand, I would like to learn more about the negative effects from using an herbicide???

It seems to me that making huge mulch rings/adding the good stuff could be a lucrative and rewarding service, but as Tom mentioned, it would really have to be advertised and presented in an attractive way. Almost every landscape would be applicable and could benefit from this service.
 
I've had much trouble selling mulching jobs for the same "don't hurt my lawn" reasons. I find that i'm having better success in redesigning landscapes and incorporating mulch beds that surround trees.

I often express to clients how much I "hate" grass and that it's "stupid" and they frequently see my point and sometimes change things but more often than not the grass wins. What i'm saying is that perhaps the approach with a HO is to attack turf (mowing, weeding, watering, fertilizing = stupid) rather than say "mulch helps trees"

I wrote an article for the newspaper about how much i hate grass, it went over pretty well. I've even thought about writing a book about how dumb turf is.

As for sod removal, doesn't an air spade suck for that? I own one and rarely use it. Had okay success using the mini loader to scrape turf. Ever used a mortorized sod cutter? They are rentable i think.

I think that a herbicide is effective too and likely environmentally okay but you totally blow your image and lose credibility if you suggest it. I've tried and watched HO's faces sneer right after suggesting it. Works great though.

I think that to truly sell it well, you need be sell it as landscaping, not tree care.
 
Most of the potential mulch jobs I see are brought up because the roots are exposed and the HO is mowing over (scalping) them. So for most of my cases, scraping the sod off with any type of machine would damage the roots unless extemely careful.

Ya, I feel you about turf being a high maintenance, energy wasting ground cover. And unlike a tree, it always looks the same. I have neighbors that mow 2-3 times a week and I really cannot even tell what has been mowed while they are doing it, and the kicker is that they all top their trees every other year. So what is the obsession with grass? And why are people not equally obsessed with trees? In my opinion it is a flaw of mankind. I know it hold soil from erosion and photosynthesises but I bet this benefit is severely trumped by the energy waste and chems dumped on billions of lawns annually.

unnecessary Rant, off to work.
 
For tough sells on the mulching, some before and after pictures would probably go a long way.

"here you see both the tree and the grass directly competing for soil nutrients and water. The lawn obviously looks poor, whereas the tree is harder to assess for the layperson."

"here you see how good it looks after we ________ (insert your treatment here) to the sod, mulched, and planted a few small, low maintenance shrubs. The homeowner doesn't have as much to mow, so can spend time on some of the other chores that they were having trouble getting to. This reduces mower and string trimmer damage, as well as the soil compaction that comes from mowing in the wet soil conditions."

People often can't picture what it will be like without seeing it. They picture an "ugly", blank ring. Often, people like the "parklike" look of the mulch ring after seeing that it can look good.

Express the virtues of mulch versus scraggly, struggling lawn.
 
Am i the only one that has extreme difficulty getting my s together enough to take before and after pictures? It's maddening how difficult it seems to just carry a camera with me, take lots of pictures and then compile them into some marketing material in the winter months.

I'm curious to see how a before and after booklet of shots would make sales more effective.

Maybe if i drank less g and t's while reading treebuzz i could work on being a more effective marketer.

southsound have you had much success selling the treatment?
 
[ QUOTE ]


As for killing the grass, we have bermuda grass here and newspaper with mulch will only slow it down. So my question is: what alternatives are there? We all know HO's use round up. What are the cons to using round up? Does it further damage the soil life? If I start pushing this service I will have to invest in the air spade for sod removal because to me it just doesn't make sense to say "let me bring your soil back to its natural state, but first apply this herbicide". But on the other hand, I would like to learn more about the negative effects from using an herbicide???

It seems to me that making huge mulch rings/adding the good stuff could be a lucrative and rewarding service, but as Tom mentioned, it would really have to be advertised and presented in an attractive way. Almost every landscape would be applicable and could benefit from this service.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really enjoyed re-reading this thread.

On the issue of killing evil turf to replace with compost and mulch, has anyone used a unit similar to this: http://www.eco-environmental.com/aquacide.shtml ?

Seems to me that it would come in handy for turf removal without damaging finer roots just below the surface. It would also lead to spinoff services of weed removal in hardscapes without herbicides.

I could see it used for removing weed in turf beds too but it may at the same time kill of beneficial organisms in the mulch.

Thoughts?
 
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