soft ascend-descend-got it right-videos-how to tie

R

Ron

Location
Chattanooga
Once again, this is experimental. Be extremely careful if you experiment with this. It looks solid in the video, but the video doesn’t show all the stuff that didn’t work.

Here's how it performed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txN9rMbQbk

Here's how I tied it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WCbkoQSa-Y

This is PI rope with PMI 9mm nylon prusik cord. I have two Schwabisch hitches with 1 turn on the bottom and 6 on the top. Last night, this same combination only required 5 turns on top – I don’t know what made the difference but the performance is the same as last night. For reference, geared up I weigh 193 lbs.

For times sake, I doubled the speed for the ascent segments. But realize I stop and restart a number of times. I’d like to say to test the hitch’s holding ability, but it was really to test my ability to breathe.

The rappel portion is ‘live’ speed with no editing whatsoever. I did this same climb and descent on PI with 8mm BeeLine and it worked, but not as good as this.

I was doing a lot of up and downs, so I'm just doing a Texas sit-stand.

My helmet cam is oriented to catch things a little higher and I had a difficult time remembering to keep my head down, so you may not see every thing that's going on.

This is an example of what it can do if setup correctly. It remains to be seen what can be done on various combinations of ropes, cordage, and climber weight.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

Ron,
You have to much time on your hands and I mean that with all due respect.
Can we get a picture of that in its entirety including the attachment to the biner please!!
It would be great to see how that works on a limb walk.
PS
Keep up the good work.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

while you were decending was you full weight on the rope or were you walking down the trunk. I have found that makes a difference to working a hitch. I tried with two blakes hitches and could not make it work at all. I either froze or slid.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

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Ron,
You have to much time on your hands and I mean that with all due respect.

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LOL - I'm a teacher - I'm off for the summer, well at least until Aug 9. I know, I know.

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...Can we get a picture of that in its entirety including the attachment to the biner please!!

[/ QUOTE ]
You bet ya! Sometime today, maybe this morning.

But let's all remember this worked for this rope, this cordage, and my weight. I don't know how far this is gonna go as far as working on different ropes, different cordage, and various climber's weight. E.g. I have found nothing, not even three wrap prusiks, that will work on my Lava rope.

I just don't won't to get people's hopes up that this is 'universal' - it may or may not prove to be.

I want to try PI with Ice Tail but I have to order the Ice Tail, so it will be probably Friday or Saturday before I get to try it.

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...It would be great to see how that works on a limb walk.

[/ QUOTE ]It sure would. I probably won't get to try a limb walk until tomorrow though.

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PS
Keep up the good work.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks man, I appreciate that!
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

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while you were decending was you full weight on the rope or were you walking down the trunk. I have found that makes a difference to working a hitch....

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My full weight was on the rope. My toes were against the tree, but were not bearing weight. That's a good thing to know about walking down the trunk, I'll tuck that away in my memory.

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...I tried with two blakes hitches and could not make it work at all. I either froze or slid.

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Yeah, that's been a disappointment. You, moss, and myself have all tried the Blake's and we all got the same result - it slides or jams.

I also tried two helicals - they did the same thing.

I want to try Klemheist hitches and try connecting the two together with a screwlink. That would simplify installation, although it's not that bad anyway, but could still be a help. I'm afraid the Klemheist is gonna do what the Blake's and helicals did though. They all have that strands from the top hitch bearing against the top strands of the lower hitch and I think that's what causes them to jam.

Actually the two Schwabisch hitches could be joined the same way (a screwlink) and that would allow two independent hitches but still connected in a equalized form.

The difference between the Klemheist and the Schwabisch is the Klemheist can be tied from a loop and the Schwabisch has to be tied on the rope and then closed with a bend.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

I tried it really quick (in the rain) with the ice and found it didnt seem to work as well as your pmi in the video. cant wait to have to hole system up and running. Thanks Ron
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

[ QUOTE ]
I tried it really quick (in the rain) with the ice and found it didnt seem to work as well as your pmi in the video. cant wait to have to hole system up and running. Thanks Ron

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I suspect this is going to come down to a 'materials' issue - i.e. what cordage with what rope.

The number of turns in the friction hitches can also make a huge difference. I went from this seems to work, but "it's slipping just a little" to one more coil on each hitch and it locked up solid and released easily.

What rope were you using?

I hope to find some high temp cordage (other than HRC $$$) that will work as well as the 9mm PMI. BeeLine (8mm) works, but not like the PMI 9mm nylon.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

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Is the goal to eventually be able to use the knots alone with out the ascender underneath?

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One could, but I'm not headed there. I like a mechanical ascender as a foot ascender (via footloop), with a tether from that ascender to the harness.

That way if the hitch catastrophically failed, you'd still be attached securely. If one had a hitch for the foot loops and the tandem hitch failed and slid down the rope, it'd take the footloop hitch with it. Brrrr.....
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Basically, I just wanted to see if it could be done while waiting on my Unicender to arrive. I think I glazed my rope by coming down too fast once.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

So Ron I have heard alot of people talking about SRT and I have used it. But what are you guys doing when your rope is right next to the trunk it makes it very difficult to foot lock and hard to hip thrust when your pressik is way above you. I make it work but its alot of work getting up there that way.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

If the rope is smack against the trunk I might use my left foot to push me away to keep from scraping my knuckles. There is a bounce step that I use to move up to keep from scraping too. Having the 10oz. throwbag on the rope helps to keep it in the Pantin too.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

[ QUOTE ]
So Ron I have heard alot of people talking about SRT and I have used it. But what are you guys doing when your rope is right next to the trunk it makes it very difficult to foot lock and hard to hip thrust when your pressik is way above you. I make it work but its alot of work getting up there that way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I do that quite often and I don't have a clue how I manage it.
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I'll have to notice the next time I do it.

I do trunk cinch climbing where the rope is tied around the trunk and I climb on the rope coming out of the cinch. Here's an example on a small diameter tree, but I do it on larger trees occassionally as well, and I climb until the top ascender (Texas config.) is right up against the cinch.

Understand that I'm not advocating you use a trunk cinch, but a trunk cinch is about as tight to the tree as it gets. So if it works for a trunk cinch, it should work anywhere.

The pertient action starts at about the 4:30 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm1maKGao8

Ahhh, it comes to me now. I straddle the tree (kinda like a riding a horse) when stopped, and I push off the tree a bit with my feet to advance.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

I have one foot in a pantin and the other foot in a foot strap. I can put my feet on the trunk while still engaged on both acenders. it so easy
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

When I'm tight to the trunk I throw a long lanyard high and walk up the trunk pushing out on the lanyard. Underside of lean helps to a degree. When feet are level with the lanyard advance your hitch then lanyard. I get about three feet out of each lanyard advance. Seems slow but it's effortless. Could describe it as a lanyard assisted hip thrust.
 
Re: soft ascend-descend - got it right! video!

[ QUOTE ]
When I'm tight to the trunk I throw a long lanyard high and walk up the trunk pushing out on the lanyard. Underside of lean helps to a degree. When feet are level with the lanyard advance your hitch then lanyard. I get about three feet out of each lanyard advance. Seems slow but it's effortless. Could describe it as a lanyard assisted hip thrust.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've used this technique before when transferring tree to tree and need to get a little higher to reach the new tree's branches to re-tie-in, and remove rope from the other tree.

Good to have in the bag of tricks.
 
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