Shady Red Oak

Cutting in front of your face where the chain could sweep you if it ever broke is something else to steer clear of.
I sense that he might be left handed?
 

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You guys all have good well thought out points.Chris is tied in twice for the whole tree. During that cut check out his climbing rope angle, very difficult angles for work posistioning. To climb out further would have pulled out more rope and if the tree failed (a real concern) he would have been below the guy ropes and inside the rigging. If he bailed from where he was it seemed he would have been just above the rigging and in the clear maybe. Could he have started the cut with the saw and finished it with a hand saw, well I do not see why not. Your observations on the natural crotch rigging of the butt line has some valid points. The tip tie took most of the load the butt is there just to stop the swing into the rigging point about 15' away, so the forces on the tree were minimal. Using a block would reduce the forces forsure. It's all a game of managing risk.
 
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No I did not write him up. You guys are killin me.

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I was wondering how many blows it would take,/forum/images/graemlins/boxing.gif
your on the ropes,/forum/images/graemlins/boxing.gif
on the floor,/forum/images/graemlins/boxing.gif
and they're still kicking you. LOL

Nice job Tod, great pics.
 
My favorite part about the whole thread is when you explained that the foreman of the crew realized that the
"skill set" wasn't there for the task and something was done about it. The whole team is so important...good point and great job, give your climber a /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif for a dangerous job well done.
 
I agree the tree appears to definitely be dead and that heavily rigging down off of itself would not have been a good idea. No doubt drift lining and tip tying is nearly always preferred, however from the evidence which i see from in the pictures, the use of guying seems a bit overkill.

If there was major decay at the base i might understand however i don't see this. If the fact that the bark on the entire tree is still intact is any indicator as to the length of tree being dead then i wouldn't have been all too concerned either.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that your climber would have been in a safer position if he had been lanyarded in and made proper cuts. The probobility of taking a nasty swing or cutting himself far outweighed the possibility of complete tree failure.

Anywho, glad you guys completed the job safely! Mind me asking what you charged for that removal???
 
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No I did not write him up. You guys are killin me.

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Take it from me Tod.........these guys don't get sarcastic humor.

Great job and photos!
 
I would have guyed that tree. But, why the rescue pulley for the guy line re-d?
From what I see, there is a tip tie, a butt tie and the butt tie doubles as a 'drift'. Right?? What's nice about using natural crotch rigging for the butt tie is, once the weight is off the butt line, the climber can take it off and the ground crew can use as a tag line. I do think there is alot of shock load on the butt line, unless the person on the line lets it run at the right moment. I think the butt line would absorb alot more shock than the tip line. Chris tieing in twice was a great move. No need to lanyard in then. That would allow him to swing between tie in points.
Nice job TK and Chris. Good call Chris on saying 'NO' and calling in the reinforcements. Write Chris up (praise) for saying "NO" and waiting for help. We need more praise on jobs like that one. Well done. /forum/images/graemlins/applaudit.gif /forum/images/graemlins/icon14.gif
 
Tree Junkie wrote:

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the use of guying seems a bit overkill.

If there was major decay at the base i might understand however i don't see this.

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tod k wrote (in the post that began this thread):

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The tree is very dead has a wicked lean and a massive deacy at the base and about half way up.

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Nice job Tod! Well thought out and carefully excecuted.
 
We had used all of the blocks. I gave some of my rigging gear to Ralph, he was taking down a large DED Elm. The work was just as you described. I tip tie as much as possiable and almost always use a natural crotch for a butt tie and pull line, it is very fast and versitile. The guys may have been a bit over kill but that species in that enviroment have a history around here of sending men home ziped up in black bag.
 
In my opinion guys are a personal choice for the climber doing the work.
He has to feel safe working up there.
If he doesn't use any guys or a sufficient number to support the work being done and the tree fails then it was his call.
 
The half hitch seems very bad for the rope. I even said "poor rope" when I saw the pics. Also could the rope slide down the tree and take the legs or something else. I see the notch in one pic for the rope but that looks super abrasive.!? Yes/No /forum/images/graemlins/icon5.gif
 
Good questions. I feel natural rigging has a place. Rope on rope we all know is not the best for rope. I use that butt tie technique just about every time I tip tie. It is mostly used to prevent a struck by if the cutting was poor. It is also used for a drift line and a tag line all with one rope. The loads on the butt are very minimal because of the tip tie. IMO this technique is super fast and super safe.
 
I have to agree with TK here (though I disagree with his choice of pants /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). A control line like that will not be damaged very easily and is only there to control a swing. It is very fast to install and remove. I would not spend the time setting another block for every cut unless each rope would share the load more evenly.
 
It shouldn't swing back if the rope is locked into a rope brake on the ground.
I can see using that if you couldn't get the angle you need to place a rope brake.
 
Why would a rope brake stop a swing? In this case the load would have swung around 15' putting unnessasary forces on the tree and it would swing back.. I don't get the rope brake. We were using a GRCS. And why could you not get a rope angel to a brake?
 
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