Serius Rope Outer Sheath Failure

[Steve Connally]

The Stein RC1000 passed the X-ray and ndi testing so it's 100% not the friction device that caused the failure. Just an update for anyone who's watching. So break testing has been done on the rope and metal testing on the lowering device. All evidence leads to a overloading of the rnw, worn overloaded rope, and a sloppy outer sheath.

 

[Steve Connally]

Not likely to buy the same rope again.

 

[monkeylove]

Thanks for the update Steve. Just used mine today but I am keeping an eye on it and rigging small.

 

[Reg]

The Stein RC1000 passed the X-ray and ndi testing so it's 100% not the friction device that caused the failure. Just an update for anyone who's watching. So break testing has been done on the rope and metal testing on the lowering device. All evidence leads to a overloading of the rnw, worn overloaded rope, and a sloppy outer sheath.

Consistently sloppy outer sheaths (as has been repeated here) is a design flaw in my book Steve. Or at least, a quality control issue if that's how they're being sent out. I don't believe the end user should have to buy a rope and then be expected to 'fix it' to make it fit for purpose. Break testing an isolated length of line does not simulate the circumstances that caused yours to fail, or any of the other failures reported here. I had to stop part way through our first job with it and milk yards out.....and probably I could still get some more out. Should that be my job, really ?

 

[Steve Connally]

I agree. It seems NE ropes doesn't agree though. The engineers looked at a couple low resolution pictures and determined it wasn't a design issue. Makes me suspect of my other rope in the truck!

 

[Reg]

I would just tie one end off, and milk it to death with a friction hitch. Is it the same size or bigger ?

 

[roxy]

Just curious, has everyone been using the Sirius for natural crotch rigging, as it was advertised? Because I agree it seems to be unbalanced core to cover , way too squishy to use for anything but block and sling/XRR, etc set ups.

 

[Steve Connally]

My guess is it would not stand up to natural crotch any way shape or form.

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

I ended up getting some solid glazed sections very quickly in our 14mm line, this after rigging thru rings and the occasional natty crotch redirect.
Anyone have any experience with the Sta-Set double braid rigging lines?

 

[JeffGu]

I have one piece of it... came in a Bag-O-Rope or might have been a short hank I got from a friend who buys them up from rope OEMs... but it's all polyester like Stable Braid but is quite a bit cheaper. Seems every bit as good, to me, but it's not a big enough hank to use for rigging (I spliced eyes into it and use it when I want to reinforce a rigging TIP back to another stem) so all I can tell you is that it seems like a very good poly rigging line. Real static compared to the Polydyne and Husky.

 

[Steve Connally]

My line was shipped back to teufelberger today. We'll see what they have to say. Last base to cover on this saga.

 

[Jack Pine]

Sounds like the whipped ends and the wrench might have contributed to the cover bunching up.

Sirus has good abrasion resistance. I've beat the living hell out of this section for about a year and a half now. Pulled vehicles, choked and skidded logs, used as a bridle multiple times hauling with a boat. It milks like hell, but if you can get past that it's good rope. Polydyne milks too. Sta-Set is rock solid right out of the bag. Stable Braid is pretty solid too.

I like Polydyne and Sterling Atlas for rigging down. Sta-set and Stable Braid for pulling/lifting. If you're going to abuse it like cable, I like Sirus.

 

[islandarb]

Just curious, has everyone been using the Sirius for natural crotch rigging, as it was advertised? Because I agree it seems to be unbalanced core to cover , way too squishy to use for anything but block and sling/XRR, etc set ups.

My 14mm sirius line has some long glazed sections from naty rigs....great rope but not for this app...some nicd sized logs caused it but it could never stand up to that hardwood...

 

[islandarb]

Blue Streak

BRW

Gold Streak

Rigged on all three....proper stuff....was my go to climbing line with blakes when I started climbing...

 

[islandarb]

If it was 12" for 25' that would be 1325lbs. I'm sure the needles and cones make up some weight for the lack of diameter but I don't think it would weigh the same as a solid 25'. The Sirius has a mbs of 7900. I've taken stuff just as big and blocked some good size wood with 1/2". Not doubting your logic Jeff just don't think that was it. Maybe I'm wrong. That's the information I'm looking for here.

Ok my 2 cents....for that type of weight, the omni was not a good choice IMHO Steve and neither was 12mm sirius...double large xrings ( min ) or a 5/8th small ISC block using at least 9/16 samson stable braid....5/8th even better....and I have taken some nice pieces with a single ring and 1/2" but never 3 wraps....seems a bit much....I don't doubt your expertise but mistakes are made...that rope looks pretty worn too..might have had some excessive shockload in it's past like sometimes happens...12mm sirius is better suited to static brush lowering and way smaller pieces around 300 to 500 range...otherwise it will wear out realllll fast....I rather use xrings too than any pinto rig or omni...any day..just my silly 2 cents..glad nothing bad happened.....

 

[islandarb]

Ok read through a bunch of this thread...I stand by my thoughts...I love the buzz for this...while I am on the crapper I can have a great read and learn a bunch plus also knowing what I do daily at work is not bad at all....I own multiple rigging lines for the mere fact that many scenarios show up...this thread had some good teaching moments

 

[bob foresti]

Agreed... although new to treebuzz, I've been following everyone's comments and experiences for a long time... and I greatly appreciate the wisdom provided... As my father used to say: "It's tough to beat the School of Hard Knocks."

Thanks...

 

[39Buick]

This is one of the best threads I have read to date. I'm just a new rec climber but have been researching the forces at work with rope angles and tie in points. Have been reading the rigging threads due to the correlation of weight and size of logs you guys work with. Fascinating stuff for someone with my lack of knowledge! Most of the information in this thread has taught me a great deal! Appreciate all of you guys sharing, what a great resource right here!

 

[Stephen Moore]

If it was 12" for 25' that would be 1325lbs. I'm sure the needles and cones make up some weight for the lack of diameter but I don't think it would weigh the same as a solid 25'. The Sirius has a mbs of 7900. I've taken stuff just as big and blocked some good size wood with 1/2". Not doubting your logic Jeff just don't think that was it. Maybe I'm wrong. That's the information I'm looking for here.

You said you dynamically loaded it? Hmm And if breaking strength is 7900 Lbs then working load limit is 10 percent of that which is 790 Lbs. Therefore the estimated 1325 Lbs you stated is clearly beyond the rated capacity of the rope by almost double. Not slaying you, just wondering if that may have played a factor in the ropes failure? I hope Im not confusing this comment with the original post ?

 

[Mowerr]

I know Ropes are tough.. The one in pics looks fairly worked.. At the size of limb you say Steve at a 10:1 safety factor I'd bet you were close to wll 12mm 790 lbs for a rope in that condition I'm sure that it was less than that and for the size three wraps seems like it would be Locking it off ime.. Sounds like you should grab some line with a nylon core for some good stretch with the ropers your working with.

A good rope man can be just as important as the high rigger. Nobody wants to pay good money for a skilled rope man on the ground. If I'm going to work for a company on the side or just to fill in my off days I will often bring my rope man and factor his pay into my price. If the climber and roper are a good team it is a beautiful thing to watch, and a skill that is harder to find now a days (roping), with all the cranes and lifts guys use these days.