Sales, bidding, estimating: what's your style?

Providing estimate on the spot:

If they specifically ask, I'll figure it out.

If it is one or two small things I'll give them a verbal quote.

If it is a longer list I tell them I'll send an estimate with details so they can sort through everything. With Jobber I'm doing that from their driveway most of the time now.

Maybe 30-40% of our repeat clients don't even ask for a quote. They know we'll treat them right...
 
I was with you all the way until the last 2 words.

I am not there to dominate anybody. I'm there to serve the client.

We so not advertise. I try to ask "what do you want" in a polite way when they call and decide if that is something we want/can do. I don't have time to spend hours and hours per week looking at something I just know we aren't going to do.

About 80-90% of the jobs I quote turn into work. Does that mean I'm bidding too low? What is the cost of cutting that number in half? Easily in the tens of thousands of dollars to cover that time. We make enough to cover expenses, put something away, and even grow a little. Is that "not enough"? It is enough for me. I do recognize it is noteworthy that we don't do big removals...and those can be harder to bid comparatively. That is just another in the list of reasons we don't do them.
The last paragraph was meant as sarcasm/dark humour. I'm not hardcore enough to be a douchebag
 
Nice, that's what I assumed. I was like, damn, I'm not trying to intimidate anyone lol. But some people actually do, I've seen arbs with strange tactics to say the least.
 
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I've seen people do it. It's not so much to dominate, but a psychological tactic to make people uncomfortable. I guess there's been studies done that show people will be more agreeable in such situations simply to end it sooner.
 
I was with you all the way until the last 2 words.

I am not there to dominate anybody. I'm there to serve the client.

We so not advertise. I try to ask "what do you want" in a polite way when they call and decide if that is something we want/can do. I don't have time to spend hours and hours per week looking at something I just know we aren't going to do.

About 80-90% of the jobs I quote turn into work. Does that mean I'm bidding too low? What is the cost of cutting that number in half? Easily in the tens of thousands of dollars to cover that time. We make enough to cover expenses, put something away, and even grow a little. Is that "not enough"? It is enough for me. I do recognize it is noteworthy that we don't do big removals...and those can be harder to bid comparatively. That is just another in the list of reasons we don't do them.
I definitely read that last bit as humor.
 
Hey y'all. My business partner and I have been building a quoting app specifically for arborists. It takes the components of jobs and breaks them down by man hour. We've actually got some great feedback from an influential member here, and we've worked hard to incorporate what he has to say. If you are interested, I'd love to demo the app for you. You can sign up at the link below, or email me at josh@treetamer, and we can set something up!

 
The last paragraph was meant as sarcasm/dark humour. I'm not hardcore enough to be a douchebag
Great... I didn't take you as such, and the "assert dominance" comment seem to come out of left field. But I don't doubt for a moment that there are sales training techniques that do just what you said.

It's looking like I get the "sarcasm right over your head" award for the day.
 
Great... I didn't take you as such, and the "assert dominance" comment seem to come out of left field. But I don't doubt for a moment that there are sales training techniques that do just what you said.

It's looking like I get the "sarcasm right over your head" award for the day.
There are sales training techniques that do teach you to “assert dominance“. Those techniques are largely used selling higher end items to people of means, as those people expect to be insulted by someone with a certain level of snobbishness when they are shopping.

Think, for example, of the stereotypical jewelry salesman at a high-end shop. He naturally acts as though you cannot afford what you are looking at, very pointedly tells you what it is, makes you feel rather belittled, and you would likely make a purchase there because you would assume his quality is so high that he can afford to act like he is better than you are.
 
My style is to be myself, very professional and keep my terms so they can clearly understand. I am not topping and only reducing if the genus can tolerate it. Next up,removals only after all stages of saving has been exhausted. I will quickly remove if tree is planted or exists in a bad spot. I win nearly all jobs I quote on, mainly because I mostly do referral work from existing clients. If I am quoting against others I mostly lose as I am always the highest. Cool by me. I never bow down out of fear of not winning. Work for my worth is my motto. I am not hungry or hand to mouth.
 
We have a real pos company here, they 'Dominate' with lies. The most recent was that they are the only company that can remove those trees because they are the only ones allowed to work near the wires...
The wires were about 30' from the closest part of the tree....
Did the same thing with a birch removal, stating the only safe way to take it down is with a spider lift and they were the only ones with one. (two lies with this..)... HO called me and refused to hire me, because I didn't have a lift...
Then there are the unneeded removals, "Gotta take this one out, its so big and if it comes down it will crush everything you own."
 
We have a real pos company here, they 'Dominate' with lies. The most recent was that they are the only company that can remove those trees because they are the only ones allowed to work near the wires...
The wires were about 30' from the closest part of the tree....
Did the same thing with a birch removal, stating the only safe way to take it down is with a spider lift and they were the only ones with one. (two lies with this..)... HO called me and refused to hire me, because I didn't have a lift...
Then there are the unneeded removals, "Gotta take this one out, its so big and if it comes down it will crush everything you own."
Unfortunately, I’ve been debating getting a spider lift just because everyone in town that’s has one, tells the homeowners that climbing trees is for hack jobs and it’s not safe. climbing is getting a bad rap really quick around Tulsa. Customers now get really concerned if I tell them, we climb the trees and do not use an aerial lift. I would say 90% as customers end up not hiring us.

Yet, I don’t see the ISA putting on any aerial lift competitions?
 
We have a real pos company here, they 'Dominate' with lies. The most recent was that they are the only company that can remove those trees because they are the only ones allowed to work near the wires...
The wires were about 30' from the closest part of the tree....
Did the same thing with a birch removal, stating the only safe way to take it down is with a spider lift and they were the only ones with one. (two lies with this..)... HO called me and refused to hire me, because I didn't have a lift...
Then there are the unneeded removals, "Gotta take this one out, its so big and if it comes down it will crush everything you own."
Yes, that’s crossing the line.
 
I have been doing this for a few years and the market has changed considerably in that time. Folks are willing to spend a lot more than they used to.

Quotes on the spot seem to lead to a higher acceptance rate but a lower labor hour… quotes emailed later that day seem more professional. I’ll usually write the quote within a half hour after I see it and review it when I get home and then send it.

Big removals are the worst labor hour wise. Small prune jobs are the best, and wear and tear on iron and human is considerably less.

I work with very skilled and creative arborists who can often make a work plan for a situation that an average climber could not... so that’s something to leverage. Some wicked smaht bubs.
 
So, I wrote over 1000 quotes last year. Maybe more, I am not certain. I am largely a full-time estimator these days, and I will share some of what I do.

I like how you started out, everything should be written in a way that the customer understands what is going to be done, and the crew can interpret it properly as well, so there are no misunderstandings.

I also have my standard lectures all saved up for when someone tells me their tree is “too tall” or they want to have it “topped”. I also learned to ask why they want to do such a thing, and what their specific concern is. Also, I will ask them to define their terms, many people use the word “topped” to mean something completely different, because they don’t know what it actually means.

Try to use words that people can understand, but don’t be afraid to drop in some science now and then, it goes a long way to prove you know what you are talking about. If they don’t quite understand everything you say, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. You are supposed to be the expert, and experts are supposed to talk with big words on occasion. Also be sure that you speak with confidence, even if you are not entirely certain what you are talking about sometimes. I heard an old salesman‘s “years ago that does prove true, “if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull“.

A touch of confident arrogance is actually not a bad thing, people expect an expert in their field to speak with a bit of confident arrogance, would you expect to go to a high-end jewelry store, and be coddled? More likely, you would be told off when you walked in the door and you would buy it from them anyway.

I always send quotes by email as well, and do not give numbers in the field. I don’t like to do that, however, I write the quote while I’m sitting in my truck in their driveway, and send it before I pull out. That make sure I don’t forget any details, and it keeps me from having hours of work when I get back to my office. I will often write 15 quotes in a day, so, there’s no way I’ll remember at all when I get back at the end of the day.

Also, every quote we send has a copy of our insurance certificates attached. That shows we actually have insurance, unlike 2/3 of the companies in this area. I’m not convinced it makes a real big difference, but it does show our legitimacy right off the start, which is important because most of our customers never actually meet with me when I’m quoting, the vast majority of my quotes written without ever seeing the customer in person.

If you have any more specific questions, please ask away, I will do my best to answer them for you.
What do you use as your 'formula' to come up with your estimate amount? Is it based on estimated hours alone or do you figure overhead + labor + rentals + mileage + + + ?
And, do you itemize the estimate so customer sees all the details or do you give them one number?
 
What do you use as your 'formula' to come up with your estimate amount? Is it based on estimated hours alone or do you figure overhead + labor + rentals + mileage + + + ?
And, do you itemize the estimate so customer sees all the details or do you give them one number?
We have calculated the hourly rates for our crews, and figure the quote based on the hours I think it will take to complete that project, plus any necessary extras (mats, specialty equipment, permits, etc.)

We generally do not itemize quotes, we give a full-project quote and will add optional line items for additional things the may want, stump grinding for example.
 

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