Running out of rope and not tieing a knot

I use an Ashley stopper knot on all the climb lines and lanyards. I ran out of rope one time without a stopper knot. I was descending slowly, so the pain was tolerable and no serious injuries... but I fell about five feet and the chainsaw was courteous enough to help break my fall by nearly ramming itself up my ass. Never again. I agree with @Levi.CO that situational awareness is paramount... but as you get older that gets harder to do toward the end of the day, so I just put up with the knot getting hung up sometimes. It's usually pretty easy to get it loose.
 
russelltree said:
Do you know of anyone who's run out of rope and come out of a tree unexpectedly who has tied a stopper knot in the tail?
Shit happpens.
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I do not know of anyone to fall with a properly tied & tightened stopper knot.

However, I would add 2 comments:
1. Stopper knots are frequently required at the TCC Work Climb events.
Without exaggeration, I'd guess that at least 75% were never tightened properly.
I've seen many, many figure-8's that were so loose, I could literally jiggle the tail end, and it would fall out.

I have also seen single overhand knots ! Not Good !

2. I personally know of 3 climbers that have had figure-8's roll out.
(Two were world class tree climbers, I am confident their knots were tight; 1 was a rock climber of unknown experience)

I only use & recommend a tight double overhand. (easy to tie & demonstrate)
 
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I've told this story before but worth repeating. Early in my climbing I spent too long working in 95f temps after I ran out of water. I started to feel sick, was on a 150' line DdRT. I guessed I couldn't reach the ground but thought it might be close enough, I didn't feel well enough to repitch lower. I got to the end of the rope, my feet were still 5-8 ft off the ground. I took out my stopper and attempted to run my hitch off the end of the rope. No go, my hitch grabbed tight on the tape wrap at the end. Wouldn't budge. I lifted myself up, detached from my harness and dropped to the ground. Point is never take it for granted that you can run off the end of your rope if you decide you want to.
-AJ
 
Young in my career I came off of a 150 ft rope while working off a crane no stopper knot. Was only about a 15 or 20 ft belly flop (I certainly felt it but no injury). Looking back there were a lot of things wrong that day. I had a 200ft rope by the end of the week. That being said, stopper knots have always hung up on me and many times have had to retrieve them. It is normally not a practice that I get into unless I know I'm short on rope. I like to pull the tail up when redirecting the line to check length when using double rope (really only off the crane) and as stated single line is easy.
 
Tying a not is a terrible idea for tree guys.

You should always confirm there is rope under you, period...what if it got cut?

I knew a climber who fell off the end of his rope twice, cause he cut it and did not know it. For real...Second time the fall hurt him. He is paralyzed from the waist down now. A knot would not have done a thing. The second time this happened he said he was descending and some small brush got tangled in his hitch, he got frustrated and pulled it all out and the new cut end was right under with out him noticing it and then he was on the ground...His story reminds me to verify your line when descending.

On another note. Tying a knot at the end of a line is a wonderful idea when rappelling down multiple pitches on a cliff face, a good friend of mine fell off the end of his line and died this way.
 
Levi.CO said:
Knot eye! I move my rope around too much in the tree, can't have a knot jamming me up.
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Mb just give the rope a lick of tape. fair warning? I hate a knot in the end of the rope. worse distraction than watching the end of the rope on the descent. lg RS over the end line knot is another solution. Have to admit even I don't use it. Sorry to hear about your friend :(
 
I have to admit that about half the time I climb with a knot. The only issues I've had is because of a knot. I got seriously yanked from my stopper knot in the end of my laynard when I cut a hemlock limb with severe witches broom. There was no moving up or down as every thing bound up under the extra weight. I managed to barely hand over hand the tail up to me and hack it apart.
Still climb with a knot in my laynard, and the tail of my rope when I know I'm pushing the limits
 
frashdog said:
Tying a not is a terrible idea for tree guys.

You should always confirm there is rope under you, period...what if it got cut?

I knew a climber who fell off the end of his rope twice, cause he cut it and did not know it. For real...Second time the fall hurt him. He is paralyzed from the waist down now. A knot would not have done a thing. The second time this happened he said he was descending and some small brush got tangled in his hitch, he got frustrated and pulled it all out and the new cut end was right under with out him noticing it and then he was on the ground...His story reminds me to verify your line when descending.

On another note. Tying a knot at the end of a line is a wonderful idea when rappelling down multiple pitches on a cliff face, a good friend of mine fell off the end of his line and died this way.
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Thank you for sharing this, and sorry for what happened to your friends. I had never considered this possibility before your post, that of having a stopper do no good due to a cut rope. Maybe doing a footlock on the way down would be helpful, but I guess the real answer is to be constantly looking down at short intervals to verify how much rope is hanging below you, and how it is situated. Slowing down on descent to allow time to check it might help also. Climbing with two ropes and two climbing systems might also help. I know it takes too long to set up for most folk's taste, but it does provide a backup when there is a failure point in one system.

Thanks again for sharing this.

Tim
 
One thing I've seen before is milking the rope down one way. When you have like 2-3" of rope cover without core in it, fold it in half and stitch it. Smaller than a knot, bulky enogh to stop a hitch. Did it on my lanyard.

But I think the simplest idea is what ropeshield said. Maybe a bunch of tape or shrink wrap like 6"-12" before one end or something. I used my rope both ways, not sure I'd be alright with doing both sides
 
Before making a cut I try to always make sure that my line is either touching the ground or inches from it. Being able to lower myself with one hand could save my life some day. Frashdog pretty much stated my view. A good ground guy will keep the tail end of my line free of knots and twigs, away from the drop zone and flaked in a neat pile with the tail end on the bottom.
 
TimBr said:
Thank you for sharing this, and sorry for what happened to your friends. I had never considered this possibility before your post, that of having a stopper do no good due to a cut rope. Maybe doing a footlock on the way down would be helpful, but I guess the real answer is to be constantly looking down at short intervals to verify how much rope is hanging below you, and how it is situated. Slowing down on descent to allow time to check it might help also. Climbing with two ropes and two climbing systems might also help. I know it takes too long to set up for most folk's taste, but it does provide a backup when there is a failure point in one system.

Thanks again for sharing this.

Tim
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Word.
The tree climber was just a guy I knew, the rock climber was a good buddy.

When descending, I like to verify my line below for any issues, (aside from safety) due to the fact I enjoy bombing out at max speed!
 
I like to avoid rope conflicts by carrying my rope in a rope bag, always knotted.

Recently, I had a limb crotch catch on my flip line thimble, and abruptly stop falling.

A dangling rope hadn't been implicated in snagging a falling branch, ever, for me. It does occur to me that it might.
 
@frashdog; Thanks for this answer. I finally acquired a Rope Runner at a tremendous discount a while ago, either on a sale or because of a mistake in pricing on a website. I still have not yet had a chance to climb on it, just because of a busy work schedule at my normal job. Maybe when things slow down for me I'll get to try it out "low and slow". Thanks again for the answer, it has me looking forward to it.

Tim
 
This is a really important discussion to be having. I always use knots at the ends of my lanyards and canopy ropes, where I know there is a chance that I could pass the end of my rope. One of the young guys on our field crew failed to do this last summer when he was coming out of a small Doug-fir with DRT and went off the end of his rope when he was about 25' feet up. He fell and landed on a very steep slope with soft soil, and went sliding down the hill. No broken bones, but one very lucky and much wiser climber.
 
southsoundtree said:
I like to avoid rope conflicts by carrying my rope in a rope bag, always knotted.

Recently, I had a limb crotch catch on my flip line thimble, and abruptly stop falling.

A dangling rope hadn't been implicated in snagging a falling branch, ever, for me. It does occur to me that it might.
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Watch out for hemlocks with dwarf mistletoe. That is what got my flipline, sucked me in tight, and had to hand over hand the limb back up to me. It kicked my ass, but no injury nor assistance needed
 
WaitakKauri said:
BOOM!!! I had bets it would be a RR.

Looking forward to hearing how you go with this Tim. Climb safe!

Cheers bro
Jason

This thread interruption couldn't be helped.
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Hey, WaitakKauri! Thanks for the interest. I like the idea of all of the SRT devices, but I basically wanted to buy them in the order I recall them being invented. This is to reward the guys who innovate this stuff, without skipping over someone.

I'll buy the Compact Bulldog Bone before I buy an Akimbo, even if both are available at the time I'm ready to buy, since it was only through @surveyor's generosity of spirit that the Akimbo became possible.

Tim
 
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