Rope Runner vs Rope Wrench for spar work

[cthompson22]

Never thought to add a wrap. In your experience does having the extra space between hitch and HH help to have the hitch take some of the load.

I found it was the total opposite using the same amount of wraps. You are just creating a hitch that is more loose by allowing it to move farther from the body. 5 wraps and then ending up with a 4" gap vs 5 wraps ending with a 1.5" gap the bigger gap will have more bite on the device less on the hitch same as using a 30" cord to tie a 4/2 vt vs 28" cord to tie the same.

Now I probably could have gotten away with less wraps and achieved the same results, that's why I said add a wrap to your current set up and put some more friction on the hitch. I was trying to achieve the exact opposite of what you are, so im just giving you advice based on my findings just in reverse.

 

[MikePowers321]

Stan it's nicer on the knees when you get to spar work and if your dumping big logs you can descend right to the next place to cut without needing a nub or false crotch for ddrt. Ideal when on a curvy squirrelly spar. Also, I'm not super fast on spars.
The bone gets gummed up good with sap too. I think a f8 you can lock off is probably the best way to roll

Yup...Pitchy Trees = Petzl Pirhana for me...lock it off.

Edit: I am talking about working the spar on the way down where all your previous cuts are oozing heavily. Otherwise I choke with a steel biner...like Levi says below

 

[Magnum783]

Most the time on a Spruce that is not a practical option. The branches are just too thick. For me, on Spruce, just start at the bottom with flipline and choked srt line and work my way up.

That's a fact I am a big dude and not too nimble. I usually refer to it like a moose crashing through the woods. My prob this week was pitch I think or should I say hope. I think if I space the gap a little more it will help it grab more to keep the HH2 itself from getting so bound up.

Now to speak to the pitch procedure. I work mainly with a wc flip line and keep my work lanyard tied to my bridge above my head a row or two of branches. This allows a little weight to come off my gaffs and more mobility. The rope I use for my lanyard (velocity) becomes trashed quick but trash it goes and replaced often. The hitch cord (epic cord) after a bit of rubbing over a 2x4 in the garage comes back to life. I only use my srt line when I get to the top and work my way down. Two lanyards is a pain working up I have this this is the best procedure I have developed.

 

[TimBr]

I would just use the hitch hiker, carry extra cord and carb cleaner

Are there any cautions or provisos that need to go along with the use of carb cleaner? Is this intended only for the hard metal parts of the Hitch Hiker, while at the same time avoiding the hitch cord and rope, or would you attempt to use it on the hitch cord, also?

These might sound like stupid questions, but I'm just looking for absolute clarity in understanding what it is you are proposing, so please be kind. Thanks in advance for any answers you choose to provide.

Tim

 

[TreelineNH]

Are there any cautions or provisos that need to go along with the use of carb cleaner? Is this intended only for the hard metal parts of the Hitch Hiker, while at the same time avoiding the hitch cord and rope, or would you attempt to use it on the hitch cord, also?

These might sound like stupid questions, but I'm just looking for absolute clarity in understanding what it is you are proposing, so please be kind. Thanks in advance for any answers you choose to provide.

Tim

I use it on the metal parts only (bone,carribeaners, and body. Acetone works good too.

wash or replace hitch cord.

 

[Magnum783]

I have used glass cleaner on hitch cord would never think about using carb cleaner. I have seen what carb cleaner and other stuff like it does to my hands and i don't really want that kind of damage done to rope or hitch chord. Hitch cords are cheap in the grand scheme of things.

We have really strayed from my original topic I was hoping to find something that navigates this pitch a little easier. I was half hoping someone would say my rope runner navigates the pitch better and that would give me justification to purchase one. The only thing with one of those in the situation I am using them is the chance at taking the load a bit un positioned. The HH2 is super stout and I really like that part of this product. I have mine reset up with a fresh piece of ocean poly and we will see how that goes. It did not seem that the blue bee line was pitched up at all so that may have no been the problem. I think I may have had the hitch cord too close where it got no lift from the krut.

 

[monkeylove]

I like the Uni in pitchy trees, but that wasn't a choice, lol.

 

[Magnum783]

I like the Uni in pitchy trees, but that wasn't a choice, lol.

It could be just not sure I want to have yet another device on my wish list. I think now after watching some videos I would rather purchase a rope runner I like the way it tends better. Much more familiar after using hitch climber.

 

[TimBr]

I think I may have had the hitch cord too close where it got no lift from the krut.

Please forgive me, but what does this mean? Is krut supposed to be crab, as in carabiner? I think Paul Cox recommends that the hitch be tied close to the top of the Hitch Hiker. I personally sit into my harness hard a few times before I leave the ground, to test my tie-in points and also to help set the Hitch Hiker hitch. This hard sitting is what causes the Hitch Hiker hitch to tend more easily.

Having said all of that, I don't climb pitchy pines.

Also, there is this perspective from another climber who has used them all. He might be mad at me for bringing this old post up, but it tells of his experience with pitch using all of those devices. Here's the link.

http://masterblasterhome.com/showth...ker-users-here&p=730604&viewfull=1#post730604

I hope some of this is helpful.

Tim

 

[Magnum783]

The krut I referring too is the cross in behind I was not getting that at all I had it what I think was way too close. As in the hitch was not grabbing at all. I like NH Local I have watched many of his videos he is part of the reason I bought the HH2. So know he had success means I have to be able to figure it out at some point some how. Just going to take some work.

 

[TimBr]

Please forgive another dumb question, just looking to make sure all of the important stuff gets covered. When you do your cross with your hitch cord, you are crossing it on the "spine" side of the Hitch Hiker correct? And you have the "spine" side facing towards you, correct? I think having it otherwise has caused some problems for folks in the past.

Sorry if this stuff seems obvious, just not wanting to miss something that might be a simple fix.

Tim

 

[TimBr]

Another vague thought occurred to me. I thought in the past guys might also have issues if they got a small burr or deformation of the slot in which the carabiner runs. I thought some guys might have fixed it with some light sanding. Now I need to try to find those specific posts. It might have been Paul Cox himself that proposed the fix for that issue.

Tim

 

[cthompson22]

Magnum there really isn't a great system out there for dealing with pitch. Hitches are the most consistent for me they just slowly become bound up with pitch, mechanicals can get real jumpy over the course of the job, the spiderjack was by far the worst with pine, I would say for be the zigzag has been the best.

The best thing you can do when in those types of trees is race the pitch and get the tree done as fast as possible. I like to have a couple of systems on hand when doing big conifers with a lot of rigging or when I will be in several of them. Usually gets me though the day and I wash all my ropes and cordage when I get home.

 

[Magnum783]

Please forgive another dumb question, just looking to make sure all of the important stuff gets covered. When you do your cross with your hitch cord, you are crossing it on the "spine" side of the Hitch Hiker correct? And you have the "spine" side facing towards you, correct? I think having it otherwise has caused some problems for folks in the past.

Sorry if this stuff seems obvious, just not wanting to miss something that might be a simple fix.

Tim

I absolutely appreciate your thoroughness this is how I function start from the basics and work forward. I am making the krut on the spine side. What I am not doing is keeping the spine toward me this may be some of my prob either way it's a simple simple fix.

 

[TimBr]

I like to have a couple of systems on hand when doing big conifers with a lot of rigging or when I will be in several of them. Usually gets me though the day and I wash all my ropes and cordage when I get home.

Wow, you are really disciplined. Having to wash all of your ropes and cordage after a long hard day seems like another half day's work on top of everything else you've already done. I'm guessing that you have it down to a science by now, and hoping that it doesn't take as long to do as I imagine it would.

Any tips or tricks or techniques you have that might speed the process up would be really great to hear about. As I've said, so far I have not had to climb any pitchy pines in my time as an amateur, but it would be nice to know what the correct approach should be when the time comes. Thanks in advance for any answer you choose to give.

Tim

 

[JeffGu]

Small can of WD-40 or carb cleaner in ditty bag. Rag stuck through loop on harness. I just go to the Dollar Store and buy those ten packs of cheap, Chinese wash cloths. They make great rags for wiping down gear/rope and are stupid cheap. I realize that stopping for a minute or two to deal with the pitch slows down your work, but then... so does spending 20 minutes fighting with a gunked up system and cussing until you're blue in the face. Washing the ropes isn't hard, and once you start cleaning your gear up it gets to be rather enjoyable. Knowing it will last longer and give you fewer problems the next time you use it, well... feels like productive work, as opposed to sitting in front of a TV for hours on end. Sometimes, I start a pot of coffee in the garage (yeah, I have a coffeemaker out there) and just fiddle with cleaning up and fixing the gear, saws, etc. and it is actually relaxing and enjoyable. Not like watching TV or playing Windows Solitaire, which leave you thinking, "There's another hour of my life pissed down the drain."

 

[Z'sTrees]

I'll second the figure 8, but use one with the ears to lock it off. When spiking up I just choke the stem with a carabiner when making a cut or unclipping the flipline, or sometimes its faster to use two lanyards. Then when you reach the top tie in with an alpine butterfly with a tail long enough to retrieve the loop when you get to your next cut. Slide the system down and repeat. Also I will leave the climbline in place sometimes to pull over the spar.
I hate pitch and sap so I try to avoid using friction hitches on pine removals, but I have found regular old laundry detergent to do a decent job in the washing machine.

 

[fall_risk]

I hate pitch too, and I have found that sometimes different knots are slightly better than others. In general, I think that knots which have parts that are wrapped inside, like a michoican, get gummed up faster and worse than those like the valdotain, which don't. YMMV, and all hitches will eventually suck.
I use an adjustable ring and ring or a pulley most of the time, but I'm fanatical in pitch, and it helps a lot. I also second the zigzag as being better than my knut-based Ddrt or wrench systems. I've been thinking about getting a scarab rather than a f8 because they lock off so fast.
I love washing ropes, I swear it makes hitch cord work better. everything goes it my regular-ass washer, daisy-chained. long lanyards get doubled and ropes get quadrupled before getting daised up, and the last link is an overhand with a long tail, i.e. tucked but not slipped. I've never had one come undone, and even 200' lines get shortened so much that they're manageable and easy to hang for drying. I use a gentle soap like woolite or seventh generation, but I'm not convinced that's necessary. If I'm feeling really ambitious, I'll even go back downstairs to add fabric softener. Everything is so pleasant to climb on for weeks after... or until the next spruce.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Tree-Taylor]

Hey Magnum, for sappy removals I'll often throw a chaffe sleeve on my lanyard and choked climbing line. Just a two foot section can work well without affecting your hitch or lanyard adjuster.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1356

I've also used a leather cambium saver with a cinched anchor. If you keep tension on both sides of the line when you retrieve it, it will stay in place and can be flicked off or it will just slide down the spar.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=8&item=1269

 

[TimBr]

I hate pitch too, and I have found that sometimes different knots are slightly better than others. In general, I think that knots which have parts that are wrapped inside, like a michoican, get gummed up faster and worse than those like the valdotain, which don't. YMMV, and all hitches will eventually suck.
I use an adjustable ring and ring or a pulley most of the time, but I'm fanatical in pitch, and it helps a lot. I also second the zigzag as being better than my knut-based Ddrt or wrench systems. I've been thinking about getting a scarab rather than a f8 because they lock off so fast.
I love washing ropes, I swear it makes hitch cord work better. everything goes it my regular-ass washer, daisy-chained. long lanyards get doubled and ropes get quadrupled before getting daised up, and the last link is an overhand with a long tail, i.e. tucked but not slipped. I've never had one come undone, and even 200' lines get shortened so much that they're manageable and easy to hang for drying. I use a gentle soap like woolite or seventh generation, but I'm not convinced that's necessary. If I'm feeling really ambitious, I'll even go back downstairs to add fabric softener. Everything is so pleasant to climb on for weeks after... or until the next spruce.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Great post, fall_risk! Thanks for all of the good information.

Tim