Rope questions…

[LBF]

So I’ve tried to do my research but I’m almost more confused than when I started so I’m here now to ask in hopes of better answers than I’ve been able to come up with so far. I have nearly all of my intended gear and down to needing rope. I’m not a professional tree guy but I appreciate good gear. I’ve done some rock climbing in the past so I understand a bit and I’ve done a lot of research. Also have a family friend who used to be a tree cutter, but he climbs (rarely) using three strand with a Blake’s hitch over a natural crotch (DRT) with a basic Weaver saddle (4 rings) and just hip thrusts to advance, so he’s been little help to my adventure. I’m intending to use this all mostly for work around my property and my parents, clearing widow makers and taking down trees that need to. Went a little overboard probably in my gear, but it is what it is. I prefer quality gear.

I’m intending to do most of my climbing SRT with a friction saver and Rock Exotica Akimbo with a Notch Jet Step ascender, but I also have a hitch climber system and prussics and not opposed to doing DRT and/or natural crotch climbing as needed. If I have any long descents I’m inclined to use a figure 8 for that, which I have. I have a Petzl Sequoia SRT saddle with the matching chest harness. Got all the other stuff (two fixed and one adjustable friction saver, throw line and weights, micro pulleys, chainsaw lanyard, couple Petzl OK carabiners, cable lanyard, etc). I got a grab bag of rope that had a 40’ length of Sterling Scion and a 50’ length of Notch Banshee, but I need some longer stuff. There’s a few Shagbark Hickory and some big Oaks around here. My original idea was to buy a spool and cut a couple lengths (100’, 150’, 200’) but not sure if that’s necessary or if it’s wise to have different ropes so when you have multiple ropes in a tree it’s easy to differentiate or what. I’m going to be the only climber most of the time.

So do I get a spool or just buy one rope and what rope would work well with everything that I have and intend to use? I’m trying to work off the table B for the Akimbo to leave a large safety margin since I’m figuring me and my gear will be somewhat close to the 220# limit for table A. For those not so familiar, I’ll attach it below. I’m also open to any suggestions and advice you all have for a newish climber.

 

[LBF]

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Having different ropes, or different color of the same rope, makes keeping order much easier.

Buy short hanks not a full spool.

 

[Reach]

Welcome to TreeBuzz! There are a lot of really great ropes in the Arborist market, and you can probably find some good suggestions for a rope by searching through past threads here on the Buzz.

I do not run the akimbo, however I am very fond of Cherry Bomb as a rope. It is sold under a couple different names though, I have been buying it from the Gap Arborist Supply as Blue Craze, which is exactly the same rope, it is just blue instead of red. I highly recommend calling Ray down there and asking him to recommend a rope.

As for what to start with, just buy one length of rope, 200 feet long, and you will be sad. You really don’t need two or three different ropes in the same tree at the same time. As a working climber for 13 years, I can count on one hand the number of times that I have actually needed do use more than one rope in a tree.

Also, as a former rock climber, I would feel comfortable using rock climbing rope to climb a tree, just be aware that rock rope is far stretchier, so you will have a lot of trouble staying in one place, when you sit back into your rope you’re liable to sink more than you want to. I realize that the industry recommendation will say that climbing on a rock rope in a tree is not a good idea, however if you keep up on your inspections, and you are only using it to do some recreational climbing, I think it will be just fine.

 

[Winchman]

Welcome to TreeBuzz. I've been climbing for several years doing what you are planning to do...taking down widomakers, trimming dead wood, and just climbing for fun and exercise. I've almost always used a rather unusual moving rope setup with Petzl ZigZag (2019), a double hand ascender with a foot loop attached, and a ball-bearing Petzl rescue pulley up top. It's simple to use and very efficient...just right for someone who's 76 and not in a hurry.

I started with Samson Voyager, but recently switched to Samson Vortex. Voyager is great. Vortex is even better.

Pricing on rope is unusual. Buying precut 150 or 200 foot lengths can often be much less than shorter lengths.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

+1 on Cherry Bomb. Currently back on Blue Moon, as well as Adrenaline and Scandere. Loved prism (no longer available), like tachyon, didn’t care for hyperclimb, or blaze, hated petzl flow, don’t love static ropes like kmiii and the climber next to me will hit me over the head for saying it. They are all great ropes! Akimbo is harder to dial in, give yourself a few ups and downs to find your setting. It’s very jumpy until you get it dialed just right.

Don’t forget your helmet!

 

[LBF]

Welcome to TreeBuzz! There are a lot of really great ropes in the Arborist market, and you can probably find some good suggestions for a rope by searching through past threads here on the Buzz.

I do not run the akimbo, however I am very fond of Cherry Bomb as a rope. It is sold under a couple different names though, I have been buying it from the Gap Arborist Supply as Blue Craze, which is exactly the same rope, it is just blue instead of red. I highly recommend calling Ray down there and asking him to recommend a rope.

As for what to start with, just buy one length of rope, 200 feet long, and you will be sad. You really don’t need two or three different ropes in the same tree at the same time. As a working climber for 13 years, I can count on one hand the number of times that I have actually needed do use more than one rope in a tree.

Also, as a former rock climber, I would feel comfortable using rock climbing rope to climb a tree, just be aware that rock rope is far stretchier, so you will have a lot of trouble staying in one place, when you sit back into your rope you’re liable to sink more than you want to. I realize that the industry recommendation will say that climbing on a rock rope in a tree is not a good idea, however if you keep up on your inspections, and you are only using it to do some recreational climbing, I think it will be just fine.

Thank you.

I think that’s part of my confusion with picking a rope, I’m finding that a number of ropes are sold under different names but the same rope, which makes trying to decide if a particular rope is or isn’t approved for the Akimbo difficult for someone new to this.

My original thought was one good rope should be enough, but the one big hickory that has to go, I don’t think even with a bag cannon I’ll be able to put the rope where I want it, but a little lower I think I can easily launch a rope up there, then when I hit near that point, I should be able to throw up to the point I really want and pull a second rope there, which is mostly just to set a rigging anchor and then I’ll probably be more back down on the first rope. Perhaps a more seasoned arborist would go about it different, but I do see it possible that at times I may need to advance like that in a tree. Of course, the 40-50’ hanks I already have will probably be adequate for that sort of thing unless I want to DRT a long limb walk or something. So that was what originally brought me around to buying a spool and saving a few bucks over buying pre-cut hanks.

Good to know about the rock climbing rope, although I don’t really have any other than a cheap line. Most of what I did was indoor climbing with the gear they had to rent/use. I did do a bit of rappelling so I’m pretty comfortable with a figure 8 for descending.

 

[LBF]

+1 on Cherry Bomb. Currently back on Blue Moon, as well as Adrenaline and Scandere. Loved prism (no longer available), like tachyon, didn’t care for hyperclimb, or blaze, hated petzl flow, don’t love static ropes like kmiii and the climber next to me will hit me over the head for saying it. They are all great ropes! Akimbo is harder to dial in, give yourself a few ups and downs to find your setting. It’s very jumpy until you get it dialed just right.

Don’t forget your helmet!

Blue moon has come up a lot in my quest for a rope. Unfortunately it’s also on table A and I’m being a little fussy about preferring to leave myself a larger safety margin. Tachyon was one I was looking at. Unfortunately there’s no Arborist stores anywhere close to me that I’ve been able to find so I haven’t had a chance to try looking and feeling different ropes. I did come across a thing at one point suggesting that static lines are not the best for what I’m all trying to do, that they are more suited for canopy entry on tall trees. Not sure how accurate that is, but it seems logical to me.

The short hank I have of Notch Banshee seemed like a nice rope, but some of the reviews seemed to suggest it’s not so great. But nobody mentions what equipment and how it’s being used so I’m suspecting that could play a part. The hank of Sterling Scion feels like a really nice piece of rope, but it’s also one of the more expensive options. A roll of that would be the end of my budget, actually a little more than I’d like to spend, but I suppose it could be an option. A pre-cut would be within my budget obviously.

The other thing on my debate was should I be leaning 16 strand or 24 strand. I like the coarseness of the 16 strand but I’m guessing a 24 strand would flow better through equipment?

 

[Reach]

Thank you.

I think that’s part of my confusion with picking a rope, I’m finding that a number of ropes are sold under different names but the same rope, which makes trying to decide if a particular rope is or isn’t approved for the Akimbo difficult for someone new to this.

My original thought was one good rope should be enough, but the one big hickory that has to go, I don’t think even with a bag cannon I’ll be able to put the rope where I want it, but a little lower I think I can easily launch a rope up there, then when I hit near that point, I should be able to throw up to the point I really want and pull a second rope there, which is mostly just to set a rigging anchor and then I’ll probably be more back down on the first rope. Perhaps a more seasoned arborist would go about it different, but I do see it possible that at times I may need to advance like that in a tree. Of course, the 40-50’ hanks I already have will probably be adequate for that sort of thing unless I want to DRT a long limb walk or something. So that was what originally brought me around to buying a spool and saving a few bucks over buying pre-cut hanks.

Good to know about the rock climbing rope, although I don’t really have any other than a cheap line. Most of what I did was indoor climbing with the gear they had to rent/use. I did do a bit of rappelling so I’m pretty comfortable with a figure 8 for descending.

Pick yourself up a copy of The Tree Climber’s Companion, it will show you how to use only one rope and advance your rope up the tree as you go. It’s actually quite easy, it was one of the first things I learned when I first started climbing. It will save you from spending a couple hundred extra on unnecessary rope, and hauling around all that extra weight.

Blue Moon is probably fine for you, I find it interesting to see that it’s not recommended for more than 220 lbs with the Akimbo, and I am curious as to why that is. Either way, I personally would not worry too much about being within a few pounds of that limit, I would guess it’s more of a guideline than a hard number.

Make a day of it and drive East to visit Gap Arborist Supply. You can look at and feel plenty of ropes and gear there. If you decide to, let me know and perhaps we can meet for lunch, or throw a rope up in a tree in my back yard, I live 12 minutes drive from the arborist supply.

 

[LBF]

Pick yourself up a copy of The Tree Climber’s Companion, it will show you how to use only one rope and advance your rope up the tree as you go. It’s actually quite easy, it was one of the first things I learned when I first started climbing. It will save you from spending a couple hundred extra on unnecessary rope, and hauling around all that extra weight.

Blue Moon is probably fine for you, I find it interesting to see that it’s not recommended for more than 220 lbs with the Akimbo, and I am curious as to why that is. Either way, I personally would not worry too much about being within a few pounds of that limit, I would guess it’s more of a guideline than a hard number.

Make a day of it and drive East to visit Gap Arborist Supply. You can look at and feel plenty of ropes and gear there. If you decide to, let me know and perhaps we can meet for lunch, or throw a rope up in a tree in my back yard, I live 12 minutes drive from the arborist supply.

I’ll have to give that a look. I’ve been trying to do as much research as I can, but it’s been a slow process. Last year I was in two auto accidents 5 days apart and suffered a concussion from each, among other injuries. Physically, I’m in reasonably good shape now, but the mental part of things is still lagging, which also draws me down physically. So I have to do things in small doses still. Unfortunately, it’s also affected my ability to drive, I can only handle about a half hour or so at a time at most and if I try to push the limit things get ugly fairly quickly. So unfortunately it will still be a bit before I’m back to driving as much as I want. Plus I’m still arguing with insurance over my truck that got totaled, which leaves me currently with just a gas hog until I can fix my other truck or replace the totaled one. When I’m not driving, I’m good for a few hours of work before I run down at this point. At some point I may take you up on the offer though, if for nothing more than a bit of adventure.

I’m guessing that the ratings on the ropes with the Akimbo likely have something to do with the rope being crushed by the cams and how smoothly it flows through. There may be a bit of safety margin past those numbers. I just started figuring up that it’s not just my weight, but also the saddle, accessories, saw, and if I’m pulling up a rope for rigging or whatever that it would put me within 10 lbs of the 220# number. My next thought was well, it would probably be fine, but what happens the more it’s used and you induce wear to the rope and Akimbo and suddenly you might find yourself on the wrong side of those numbers. By stepping up to the higher rating it may take longer for it to be an issue. Maybe I’m overthinking things, but like the idea of a higher safety margin and potentially longer working life for my gear. Originally I hadn’t really planned on getting the Akimbo or the somewhat similar Notch (the exact name escapes me) and was leaning towards a zig-zag or rope wrench. But, I ended up scoring a deal on the Akimbo, brand new from an arborist store for almost $100 under current price. A deal like that is hard to pass up.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I’ll have to give that a look. I’ve been trying to do as much research as I can, but it’s been a slow process. Last year I was in two auto accidents 5 days apart and suffered a concussion from each, among other injuries. Physically, I’m in reasonably good shape now, but the mental part of things is still lagging, which also draws me down physically. So I have to do things in small doses still. Unfortunately, it’s also affected my ability to drive, I can only handle about a half hour or so at a time at most and if I try to push the limit things get ugly fairly quickly. So unfortunately it will still be a bit before I’m back to driving as much as I want. Plus I’m still arguing with insurance over my truck that got totaled, which leaves me currently with just a gas hog until I can fix my other truck or replace the totaled one. When I’m not driving, I’m good for a few hours of work before I run down at this point. At some point I may take you up on the offer though, if for nothing more than a bit of adventure.

I’m guessing that the ratings on the ropes with the Akimbo likely have something to do with the rope being crushed by the cams and how smoothly it flows through. There may be a bit of safety margin past those numbers. I just started figuring up that it’s not just my weight, but also the saddle, accessories, saw, and if I’m pulling up a rope for rigging or whatever that it would put me within 10 lbs of the 220# number. My next thought was well, it would probably be fine, but what happens the more it’s used and you induce wear to the rope and Akimbo and suddenly you might find yourself on the wrong side of those numbers. By stepping up to the higher rating it may take longer for it to be an issue. Maybe I’m overthinking things, but like the idea of a higher safety margin and potentially longer working life for my gear. Originally I hadn’t really planned on getting the Akimbo or the somewhat similar Notch (the exact name escapes me) and was leaning towards a zig-zag or rope wrench. But, I ended up scoring a deal on the Akimbo, brand new from an arborist store for almost $100 under current price. A deal like that is hard to pass up.

It would be fine imho.
16 strand isn’t going to be great on that device, stick with 24.

 

[Tuebor]

I like Cherry Bomb also. Akimbo seems to be pretty finicky and you'll see climbers have differing opinions about its performance on the same rope. If you're on Facebook, go join the Akimbo group and ask there. Lately, a lot of guys are liking Squir, and if you're not over 220 to start with, those A group ropes would probably work fine. The more static ropes won't be as nice for DRT.

Don't buy a spool. 200' should be fine.

If you are in western PA, you could drive west to Endor's in Canton.

Don't get too zealous on your trees.

 

[Vicente]

I don't have an akimbo I use a Rrp, I'd check out sterling htp in 12.5 it runs well with mechanicals and c doesn't deform to badly and is rated to 286lbs for the akimbo. I have 2 200 ft rope 1 to use and a second to get me out of a tree if I do something stupid and damage my rope, I also have a 100 ft and another one about 80 ft. I don't see much point in owning a rope between 100 and 200 feet if you've got both of those you should be set.

 

[Willber]

Welcome to the Buzz, LBF!
I have spent about $1200 on many different ropes, and was even looking into having a custom rope made.
But, have decidedly settled on DrenaLine.
Things I like about it: it is a true 32 braid cover, (a higher braid wears better in equipment, causes less damage to bark, and picks less) is slightly less than 11.8mm (what it is advertised at), when new, but when in use for about a few months of heavy use, the core will fluff out/settle, to fully fill the space where it resides, between the space of the inside walls of the cover. Causing max potential of push against the inner walls of the cover, causing the rope to be about a full diameter of 12.1mm, which I find a great diameter for use in the Petzl ZigZag. Not too small diameter, where it will creep, yet not too large diameter where it will not self tend, when advancing quickly upward. Also, the large diameter feels great in the hands, and aids in grip.
Also, the "fill out" of the core is desirable in that it will cause the cover to be a tighter braid, reducing picking of the filaments that make up the braid strands.
If you don't get the spLIFE done on a new DrenaLine, you'll have to go with a sewn eye, which is a cumbersome large termination, as are most sewn eyes.
The DrenaLine is sufficiently static for DRT, but some say it is too bouncy for SRT. I can't attest to the bounce in SRT, though I reckon it would be nice to have a more static rope than DrenaLine, for SRT.

 

[Christrees]

Welcome to TreeBuzz. I've been climbing for several years doing what you are planning to do...taking down widomakers, trimming dead wood, and just climbing for fun and exercise. I've almost always used a rather unusual moving rope setup with Petzl ZigZag (2019), a double hand ascender with a foot loop attached, and a ball-bearing Petzl rescue pulley up top. It's simple to use and very efficient...just right for someone who's 76 and not in a hurry.

I started with Samson Voyager, but recently switched to Samson Vortex. Voyager is great. Vortex is even better.

Pricing on rope is unusual. Buying precut 150 or 200 foot lengths can often be much less than shorter lengths.

Hows the zigzag running threw the vortex? Ive actually been wanting to break out a new 150ft Hank of vortex. But I just got out a new ivy so going to have to wait til next time. But let me know plz thanks

 

[Winchman]

The Vortex is even better than the Voyager since the larger diameter makes the chain lock quicker with less give-back on progress. The Vortex runs just as freely through the chain going up, and I've never had any surprise slippage going up or down.

I have the ZZ slightly above my head with an Ocean eye2eye down to my harness so I can take nice long strokes with the hand ascender/foot loop. This arrangement also avoids ever having to tend the line below the ZZ

 

[LBF]

Welcome to the Buzz, LBF!
I have spent about $1200 on many different ropes, and was even looking into having a custom rope made.
But, have decidedly settled on DrenaLine.
Things I like about it: it is a true 32 braid cover, (a higher braid wears better in equipment, causes less damage to bark, and picks less) is slightly less than 11.8mm (what it is advertised at), when new, but when in use for about a few months of heavy use, the core will fluff out/settle, to fully fill the space where it resides, between the space of the inside walls of the cover. Causing max potential of push against the inner walls of the cover, causing the rope to be about a full diameter of 12.1mm, which I find a great diameter for use in the Petzl ZigZag. Not too small diameter, where it will creep, yet not too large diameter where it will not self tend, when advancing quickly upward. Also, the large diameter feels great in the hands, and aids in grip.
Also, the "fill out" of the core is desirable in that it will cause the cover to be a tighter braid, reducing picking of the filaments that make up the braid strands.
If you don't get the spLIFE done on a new DrenaLine, you'll have to go with a sewn eye, which is a cumbersome large termination, as are most sewn eyes.
The DrenaLine is sufficiently static for DRT, but some say it is too bouncy for SRT. I can't attest to the bounce in SRT, though I reckon it would be nice to have a more static rope than DrenaLine, for SRT.

Thank you for the welcome.

Honestly I’ve been a little skeptical of the 32 strand line, was worried a little about durability (which appears to be an unfounded worry), but the real worry was that the DrenaLine and other 32 strands are being listed as static ropes and what I’ve researched so far seems to indicate that those are best for long ascents and mechanical devices only, along with only using friction savers. I wanted whatever line I get to work with nearly any climbing style and also that when I’m done say, clearing widowmakers out of a 100’ oak, I can just swap out my Akimbo for a figure 8 and ziiipp down. Rather put the heat and wear of a longer decent on a relatively cheap figure 8 rather than the $370 Akimbo. I’m guessing that’s where a lot of guys complaining of a short lifespan of the Akimbo end up at that point.

That all said, maybe you can tell me if I’m overthinking things or not? I’m still trying to learn at this point (well, I’ll never stop trying to learn and ask questions), but like I said, I’m not exactly new to climbing, just new to climbing trees. Some things cross over and some not so much. I do like the sound of the core expanding which would help eliminate the “milking” I’ve heard about. I’m just curious as to how well it will work for me when I’m not SRT on an Akimbo.

Since I already have a short length of Notch Banshee and Sterling Scion, and the weather is supposed to be nice this week, I’m thinking of throwing those up in a tree and try them out. Might as well, right?

 

[Reach]

Thank you for the welcome.

Honestly I’ve been a little skeptical of the 32 strand line, was worried a little about durability (which appears to be an unfounded worry), but the real worry was that the DrenaLine and other 32 strands are being listed as static ropes and what I’ve researched so far seems to indicate that those are best for long ascents and mechanical devices only, along with only using friction savers. I wanted whatever line I get to work with nearly any climbing style and also that when I’m done say, clearing widowmakers out of a 100’ oak, I can just swap out my Akimbo for a figure 8 and ziiipp down. Rather put the heat and wear of a longer decent on a relatively cheap figure 8 rather than the $370 Akimbo. I’m guessing that’s where a lot of guys complaining of a short lifespan of the Akimbo end up at that point.

That all said, maybe you can tell me if I’m overthinking things or not? I’m still trying to learn at this point (well, I’ll never stop trying to learn and ask questions), but like I said, I’m not exactly new to climbing, just new to climbing trees. Some things cross over and some not so much. I do like the sound of the core expanding which would help eliminate the “milking” I’ve heard about. I’m just curious as to how well it will work for me when I’m not SRT on an Akimbo.

Since I already have a short length of Notch Banshee and Sterling Scion, and the weather is supposed to be nice this week, I’m thinking of throwing those up in a tree and try them out. Might as well, right?

You probably are overthinking things, all new climbers do, and (no offense to the rec guys out there) but you recreational climbers also seem to overthink and overcomplicate climbing. Buy a good 24 strand rope, and get going. As we in the industry like to say at times, “just get up there and get going”.

You don’t have to have the “perfect” everything. And your personal style will change as you learn and practice more anyway, so just order one rope and start at it. If you really don’t like that rope, pick another.

Beware Drenaline though, my guys who have used it say it’s like climbing a bungee cord. Something static or more static is a better place to start, as said before, Blue Moon and Blue Craze are both great all around ropes to start out with.

And one one last word of caution, do some looking at past postings by some of the members here, and make your own judgments of what they know before you believe them. Some here look like they know far more than they do. You should be able to get an idea of who is who by reading a member’s previous posts.

 

[Tuebor]

Good advice there ^. I agree that you are over thinking. You are probably too new to notice much of a difference between ropes anyway. 24 stand is a big fat happy medium. Most of it works well SRT and DRT with most devices and hitch cord.

I was very disappointed with drenaLINE. It was stretchy but its durability was dismal.

 

[Winchman]

The Drenaline I tried slipped so unpredictably with my ZZ that I was scared to use it. I was trying to convince myself to wash it as suggested here. Then I found some manufacturing defects near the middle of the 200' piece, and decided to return it.