rope placement while blocking down a trunk
- Thread starter Phil
- Start date
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Fair points Frans, although I don’t believe your comparison between the mechanic and tree scenario is fair.
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I used the mechanic example as an example. the 'sophisticated user' precedent, is applied to every trade, in the law.
Fair, or not fair, is not part of the equation. Well maybe on day time t.v. soap opera it is
On another note, I do agree with having trouble taking seriously anyone on this board who 'hides' behind an anonymous name and address.
If you really are a great climber, why hide?
We have climbers here from all over the world, and they compete. THEY are not hiding, in fact they are proud to be an upstanding member of Treebuzz (of course they earned it!).
-I would like to add here that I am the winner of the 'oldtimers' local climbing competion of 2005, Santa Rosa Ca. Just a bunch of oldtimers, but alot of fun had by all.
'Grover', care to put your bragging rights to the test?
[ QUOTE ]
Fair points Frans, although I don’t believe your comparison between the mechanic and tree scenario is fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
I used the mechanic example as an example. the 'sophisticated user' precedent, is applied to every trade, in the law.
Fair, or not fair, is not part of the equation. Well maybe on day time t.v. soap opera it is
On another note, I do agree with having trouble taking seriously anyone on this board who 'hides' behind an anonymous name and address.
If you really are a great climber, why hide?
We have climbers here from all over the world, and they compete. THEY are not hiding, in fact they are proud to be an upstanding member of Treebuzz (of course they earned it!).
-I would like to add here that I am the winner of the 'oldtimers' local climbing competion of 2005, Santa Rosa Ca.
Just a bunch of oldtimers, but alot of fun had by all.'Grover', care to put your bragging rights to the test?
- Location
- Hawaii
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Frans, does the CAA put on the old timers comp? That would be fun to watch.
jp
Frans, does the CAA put on the old timers comp? That would be fun to watch.
jp
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Frans, does the CAA put on the old timers comp? That would be fun to watch.
jp
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, they did in '05! I dont know about 'fun' to watch, might have been kinda painfull watching us oldtimes thrash around and think we were moving smoothly and young again
A better title of the meet would have been 'Pity' comp!
Mark Chisholm did'nt have anything on us!
have I successfully derailed the thread yet?
[ QUOTE ]
Frans, does the CAA put on the old timers comp? That would be fun to watch.
jp
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, they did in '05! I dont know about 'fun' to watch, might have been kinda painfull watching us oldtimes thrash around and think we were moving smoothly and young again
A better title of the meet would have been 'Pity' comp!
Mark Chisholm did'nt have anything on us!
have I successfully derailed the thread yet?
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Derailed is allright here, If the CAA wont do one for you come on down to Fl. thrid Sat. in Jan.
Be safe be happy Scotty
Derailed is allright here, If the CAA wont do one for you come on down to Fl. thrid Sat. in Jan.
Be safe be happy Scotty
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Hey JP--
What is that photo in your avatar? I have a photo that looks alomost exactly like it which I took on one of our trips. I rememeber it was on the Big Island....black sand beach....steep narrow road......??
Hey JP--
What is that photo in your avatar? I have a photo that looks alomost exactly like it which I took on one of our trips. I rememeber it was on the Big Island....black sand beach....steep narrow road......??
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
have I successfully derailed the thread yet?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really , I shouldn't do this but I will . Call it a truce between me and Grover . I,ll just be more careful since he is always watching. Truce
[ QUOTE ]
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have I successfully derailed the thread yet?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really , I shouldn't do this but I will . Call it a truce between me and Grover . I,ll just be more careful since he is always watching. Truce
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Great link Riggs, I remember watching that with my eldest son (he's now almost finished Uni!) thanks for that man.
Great link Riggs, I remember watching that with my eldest son (he's now almost finished Uni!) thanks for that man.
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
AWESOME LINK!!! Jim Henson was a genius.
Anyway, I have to reconsider my position on this topic... Has anyone been tied into a spar or up in a tree and your boss or co-worker decides he/she can't wait the extra 45 seconds for you to descend to the ground so they start cutting the face notch at the base of the trunk while you're still up top??!!! I have yelled at a few people, "What's your @^$&ing problem?! Can't you wait 'til I'm out of the #&*!ing tree?!". Same process applies to notching the piece your tied-in to. As Ekka said...""Isn't that what this is all about? Doing it a safer way."" As Contract Climber said...""Some techniques require a higher level of skill, experience, and understanding/feel for mechanics to the point that they are almost impossible to teach or document. I’m sure many of you can relate to what I mean, but you can’t teach them, they just evolve!"". I will think a lot harder the next time I cut a notch in the piece I'm tied-in to.
AWESOME LINK!!! Jim Henson was a genius.
Anyway, I have to reconsider my position on this topic... Has anyone been tied into a spar or up in a tree and your boss or co-worker decides he/she can't wait the extra 45 seconds for you to descend to the ground so they start cutting the face notch at the base of the trunk while you're still up top??!!! I have yelled at a few people, "What's your @^$&ing problem?! Can't you wait 'til I'm out of the #&*!ing tree?!". Same process applies to notching the piece your tied-in to. As Ekka said...""Isn't that what this is all about? Doing it a safer way."" As Contract Climber said...""Some techniques require a higher level of skill, experience, and understanding/feel for mechanics to the point that they are almost impossible to teach or document. I’m sure many of you can relate to what I mean, but you can’t teach them, they just evolve!"". I will think a lot harder the next time I cut a notch in the piece I'm tied-in to.
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
- I can't disagree with you more there Frans . If someone is talking as much crap as Grover , I'd like to see him put up or shut up . How virtually impossible is it to get a plane ticket ? I'm sure there'S a tree job near an airport. I find your final note useless and annoying . Let the dogs go if their barking , ones gonna have the bite , the other is gonna run .
[/ QUOTE ]
I will put up a $100.00 bucks for his plane ticket! As long as someone is around to film!
No seriously, I have been doing tree work a long time and I am just gratefull to get home safely and make a buck or two along the way. Am I fast? No. At one time maybe, but not anymore.
However I do have folks who call me year after year to work on their trees. Thats what I care about, having the respect of my community.
Riggs, I have the feeling you are the same way.
[ QUOTE ]
- I can't disagree with you more there Frans . If someone is talking as much crap as Grover , I'd like to see him put up or shut up . How virtually impossible is it to get a plane ticket ? I'm sure there'S a tree job near an airport. I find your final note useless and annoying . Let the dogs go if their barking , ones gonna have the bite , the other is gonna run .
[/ QUOTE ]
I will put up a $100.00 bucks for his plane ticket! As long as someone is around to film!
No seriously, I have been doing tree work a long time and I am just gratefull to get home safely and make a buck or two along the way. Am I fast? No. At one time maybe, but not anymore.
However I do have folks who call me year after year to work on their trees. Thats what I care about, having the respect of my community.
Riggs, I have the feeling you are the same way.
- Location
- Hawaii
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
Mahk, it's a picture of Waipio Valley on the Hamakua coast (the northwest facing coast about 30min. outside Kailua-Kona.
One of the most beautiful places I've ever been.
jp
Mahk, it's a picture of Waipio Valley on the Hamakua coast (the northwest facing coast about 30min. outside Kailua-Kona.
One of the most beautiful places I've ever been.
jp
- Location
- Hawaii
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
That link is too perfect, classic!
jp
That link is too perfect, classic!
jp
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
That's pretty radical, some-one cutting the notch on the stem whilst you are still in the tree.
FAR OUT.
Never heard of that one.
Guys, I'd just like to draw your attention to the competition for a moment. It has to be a working competition where chainsaws and rigging is used aloft, not a climbing comp, but a true working comp.
I've seen too many climbing gurus who cant rig or cut for [censored], tree nancies who train for the comps but in real practical tree work they aint king of the hill that's for sure.
So you need to get some similar trees in a location and do take downs, I think this is where Stihl timber sports and other logging comps have the wood on TCC coz you can see who's the real top gun operator as far as safety, accuracy and productivity. Dinging a bell with ya nancy stick is BS in the real world. Can you cut it properly, collar cut it, not get a hanger, snap cut it, lower it, etc etc ... a lot goes on besides dinging bells.
That's pretty radical, some-one cutting the notch on the stem whilst you are still in the tree.
FAR OUT.
Never heard of that one.
Guys, I'd just like to draw your attention to the competition for a moment. It has to be a working competition where chainsaws and rigging is used aloft, not a climbing comp, but a true working comp.
I've seen too many climbing gurus who cant rig or cut for [censored], tree nancies who train for the comps but in real practical tree work they aint king of the hill that's for sure.
So you need to get some similar trees in a location and do take downs, I think this is where Stihl timber sports and other logging comps have the wood on TCC coz you can see who's the real top gun operator as far as safety, accuracy and productivity. Dinging a bell with ya nancy stick is BS in the real world. Can you cut it properly, collar cut it, not get a hanger, snap cut it, lower it, etc etc ... a lot goes on besides dinging bells.
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
TLHamel
I cant figure out whether or not you're having a laugh at my expense.
the statement you refer to wasn't just specific to something as basic as notching. Although even Im not sure what I meant by it now, but I think I was on the crest of a moral wave at the time.
TLHamel
I cant figure out whether or not you're having a laugh at my expense.
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone is talking as much crap as Grover.
[/ QUOTE ]
AKA Groveritis?
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Ed,
I'll be only too happy to listen to your reasoning behind your use or past use of this technique.
Something that has bothered me for some time now is your avatar, in the photo you have the saw on your shoulder like you're about to take a long walk.
Where exactly are you planning to go?
Do you have gravity defying powers? are you able to simply unclip your biners and walk down the side of the stem at a 90 degree angle? then continue walking home?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone is talking as much crap as Grover.
[/ QUOTE ]
AKA Groveritis?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ed,
I'll be only too happy to listen to your reasoning behind your use or past use of this technique.
Something that has bothered me for some time now is your avatar, in the photo you have the saw on your shoulder like you're about to take a long walk.
Where exactly are you planning to go?
Do you have gravity defying powers? are you able to simply unclip your biners and walk down the side of the stem at a 90 degree angle? then continue walking home?
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
If you really are a great climber, why hide?
We have climbers here from all over the world, and they compete. THEY are not hiding, in fact they are proud to be an upstanding member of Treebuzz (of course they earned it!).
[/ QUOTE ]
frans,
I have never once said I am a great climber, I just thought it would be appropriate to highlight a potentially more dangerous technique than the one that is normally used in that part of a removal.
Zac decided to send this thread off at a tangent from Phil's original post, not me, I just passed comment that i thought the technique was unsafe.
Two tie ins below the notch is safer than one tie in above and one below, right?
TCCs
I have competed in 3 ISA TCCs where I on one occasion won the speed climb. Thats it, thats all I have ever achieved in a TCC apart from taking part and learning some new knots and techniques.
When I attended TCCs as a competitor I got unbearably nervous to the point of living on my nerves for that day, I was very competative and at one time I wanted to be a champion but I decided it was in my own and the organisers best interest for me to stop taking part in these events. The fact I was getting very nervous did not sit well with me and I began to question why I wanted to take part. But I may try again one day. I don't know.
I do appreciate the effort that the organisers and serious competitors go to, to make these events a great success.
My focus is more on the trees and how I can be a better climbing arborist in my day to day work.
Tom Dunlap knows who I am, I am not anonymous, but I prefer to post anonymously as I think if you become too friendly with people it can stifle serious debate and hinder people's true feelings towards a technique etc.
[ QUOTE ]
If you really are a great climber, why hide?
We have climbers here from all over the world, and they compete. THEY are not hiding, in fact they are proud to be an upstanding member of Treebuzz (of course they earned it!).
[/ QUOTE ]
frans,
I have never once said I am a great climber, I just thought it would be appropriate to highlight a potentially more dangerous technique than the one that is normally used in that part of a removal.
Zac decided to send this thread off at a tangent from Phil's original post, not me, I just passed comment that i thought the technique was unsafe.
Two tie ins below the notch is safer than one tie in above and one below, right?
TCCs
I have competed in 3 ISA TCCs where I on one occasion won the speed climb. Thats it, thats all I have ever achieved in a TCC apart from taking part and learning some new knots and techniques.
When I attended TCCs as a competitor I got unbearably nervous to the point of living on my nerves for that day, I was very competative and at one time I wanted to be a champion but I decided it was in my own and the organisers best interest for me to stop taking part in these events. The fact I was getting very nervous did not sit well with me and I began to question why I wanted to take part. But I may try again one day. I don't know.
I do appreciate the effort that the organisers and serious competitors go to, to make these events a great success.
My focus is more on the trees and how I can be a better climbing arborist in my day to day work.
Tom Dunlap knows who I am, I am not anonymous, but I prefer to post anonymously as I think if you become too friendly with people it can stifle serious debate and hinder people's true feelings towards a technique etc.
TC
Participating member
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone been tied into a spar or up in a tree and your boss or co-worker decides he/she can't wait the extra 45 seconds for you to descend to the ground so they start cutting the face notch at the base of the trunk while you're still up top??!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT!!!!!!!
You've got to be kidding me TLHamel?
Thats a new one on me, that's just unbelievable.
I thought the overhead tie in was bad!!
This has just beaten them all, questionable one handing of a chainsaw, descending a tag line, cutting a notch with the overhead tie in.
If anyone tried a stunt like that on me they'd recieve a blistering verbal onslaught that would render their senses useless for a least three days.
I don't like using violence but this would be about as close to my tipping point as I could handle.
Unbelievable.
You've got to put a stop to that right now.
Seriously, why are they in such a rush?
Not priced the job properly, being too greedy wanting to bust another job in at the end of a day, dieing to get home to watch the discovery channel?
What's the reasoning behind it?
It is downright reckless.
Worse case scenario - groundie attempts to cut notch, takes out the only good holding/supporting wood, tree fails, climber dies.
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone been tied into a spar or up in a tree and your boss or co-worker decides he/she can't wait the extra 45 seconds for you to descend to the ground so they start cutting the face notch at the base of the trunk while you're still up top??!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT!!!!!!!
You've got to be kidding me TLHamel?
Thats a new one on me, that's just unbelievable.
I thought the overhead tie in was bad!!
This has just beaten them all, questionable one handing of a chainsaw, descending a tag line, cutting a notch with the overhead tie in.
If anyone tried a stunt like that on me they'd recieve a blistering verbal onslaught that would render their senses useless for a least three days.
I don't like using violence but this would be about as close to my tipping point as I could handle.
Unbelievable.
You've got to put a stop to that right now.
Seriously, why are they in such a rush?
Not priced the job properly, being too greedy wanting to bust another job in at the end of a day, dieing to get home to watch the discovery channel?
What's the reasoning behind it?
It is downright reckless.
Worse case scenario - groundie attempts to cut notch, takes out the only good holding/supporting wood, tree fails, climber dies.
- Location
- Asheville,NC
Re: Dangerous Technique Alert!!!
The last time I stayed tied into the spar while I was cutting the stem was 36" plus. It is far easier to use a large saw to make a precision notch hanging from a tie in. I do keep my laynard on as well. There is no way the spar would fail doing this. I don't do it on smaller stems. Just something to keep in your bag og tricks. Grover, try it you might like it.
The last time I stayed tied into the spar while I was cutting the stem was 36" plus. It is far easier to use a large saw to make a precision notch hanging from a tie in. I do keep my laynard on as well. There is no way the spar would fail doing this. I don't do it on smaller stems. Just something to keep in your bag og tricks. Grover, try it you might like it.
