rip cuts to reduce rigging forces

Muggs said:
This is the standard misinformation that kept me from getting a Goods for 15 years. Total bullshit. The winch is tough as nails. Watch some of Greg's old videos for yourself.
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He's dropping some fairly big pieces into the winch here:

not the way I was taught... but I did bomb some big pieces into the winch before I was tld not to do that.
 
In my wierld...
This rigging is a transferring of force, relief in one arena to build force in another.
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i assume rip cuts are faceless cuts here. Relief from back cut builds force to faceless compression side as relief cannot show as distance. Force is always a reciprocal of distance; distance that could have been, but remains unachieved, unrequited . Of course, pretty much only do in removals, never want 'ruffled feathers'/disrupted fibers in finishing cut for a 'keeper'.
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Especially w/o rope, prefer 45° downward for this faceless rip. Straight down feeding into strongest loading into strongest angle of gravity/pure vertical down. So, some to the side less or distributed loading.
@45° cos=sine=70.7%, so buffers down loading as it equally, feels squarely , pulls to side pull. With rope can take trick to less favorable wood, and even further. It wants to go down, bargain side motion out of it as allow some of what it wants(down), tease it so sometimes seems. About 30% less immediate, more manageable downward loading. Usually like slow, steady, NO herky-jerky start-stop micro impacts. But in good wood, with some horiz length not huge diameter, w/o rope have been able to get a sideways throw w/confident speed into tearoff.
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Another aspect of the 45° cos=sine=70.7%, is that usually as load pulled to side on rope, rope support slackens some as hitchpoint and rigging point get closer/less distance. But hear, the amount of rope relief from sideways drift of hitchpoint closer towards rigging point; then moves down away from the hitchpoint the same amount (cos:sine value pair verifies), keeping rope as tight in the 1:1 trade off of closer horizontally but equally farther vertically. Slides to side can resolve some shituations w/o crane or horiz balance attempts; steering positively and predictable from 'nose'/tip. But close enough to CoG to handle lightly, and greater distance from hitchpoint to hinge pivot gives more pre-tightening per degree in the initial tip down to tight rope some more phase.
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Many times, pretighten rope as much as can, then cut downwards some w/rope almost to CoG for leveraged length, so as settles, self pretightens harder more, then serve to the 45° to side and down with tapered hinge(fat side up) or faceless.
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May tweak some extra turn torque to right, by coming over top of load to left side, down/under and across to hitch to right/pull side sound branch, or thru carabiner on that branch (just for angle quantity) and then hitched to sounder, even main part of spar normally . Then as load settles down, starts to torque to right side some, like lightly pulling recoil slowly...jest a bit extra spice sprinkled into turn/drift sideways when still on hinge. Sometimes best hitchpoint isn't best balance point, so i may cut some weight off heavy end OR even rig it back to hang on the lighter side of hitch, but still prefer tip heavy as it's own predictable steering, not so iffy/lively as when try to hit CoG w/rope or span of rope.
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Tearoff shock is reduced, perhaps virtually nullified when most of load already handed off to rope before tearoff, for minimal change/less shock of change. The load can handle more butterfly light on hinge that is doing lots less support work, and focused just to steering.
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Taller or longer vertical length of hinge uses length as leverage against side pull, whether in standing tree; or in rigging across where organic down of gravity force is viewed as a side pull, not into but across the sideways path steering to/chosen. Tapered Hinge re-apportions some of hinge material to put fat wad of resistance at the end of the lever formed to "off-side"(Dent) of the side pull; while maintaining same amount of forward resistance(considerations of forward and cross-ways axises). Also, usually as tree comes forward side force can be kept more inline to Tapered Hinge for longer range more directly 'ushered', where would not so much in more linear 'strip' hinge that is not specialized to either side/same across, like for a more balanced log of CoG to center face in forward lean. Felling so feeds into strongest pull of gravity tho, felling as sidelean would then be less direct forces, and practice s-kills. Doc Shigo lent that hard rain could wreak havoc to underground sea of soil, so some buffering fell force as can, may be viable consideration. As sharpen skills of sidelean felling, and as parallels to sideways steering longer horizontals in tree.
 
Although it can handle it, it is generally said not to negative rig on the winch. If the rope can be tensioned, pulling the piece to the rigging point, it'll take even more. Whole trees even. The aluminum bollard takes seconds to swap out for large negative rigging.
 
The majority of tree work is lowering pieces rather than lifting them. This is where the Hobbs outshines all other lowering devices, and it never jumps wraps the way the GRCS does (at least the older models like I had used to always jump).
 
chris_girard said:
The majority of tree work is lowering pieces rather than lifting them. This is where the Hobbs outshines all other lowering devices, and it never jumps wraps the way the GRCS does (at least the older models like I had used to always jump).
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True. And, the majority of lowing can be done with the porty. So far, my GRCS hasn't jumped wraps. I've used it a bunch. Picked a central rigging point, floated a block for easy retrieval and cranked a bunch of crap to it. Not downing the Hobbs at all. Just glad to see this thread derailed. LOL
 
For me, overhead rigging is 80-90% of the work I do. I usually go out of my way to avoid negative rigging. I rarely use the Goods to "lift" but I love having that quick and easy access to tension in the system. I love cranking pieces tight before cutting. 3 or 4 wraps on the winch and then just tail it by hand as you crank, then yer good to go. I actually think I would like a Hobbs more, but the Goods was much easier to get my hands on.
 
Some of the jumping wraps issues can be mitigated by the placement of the GRCS. If the winch is downward drooping or upwards has a huge effect.
Aiming for level or slightly upwards is best in my experience. Lighter loading a few felling wedges can be use to adjust, but rotating it to a flatter spot or higher up from the butress swelling is best. A removal, just shave the stem to get it to sit flat and level.
 
evo said:
Some of the jumping wraps issues can be mitigated by the placement of the GRCS. If the winch is downward drooping or upwards has a huge effect.
Aiming for level or slightly upwards is best in my experience. Lighter loading a few felling wedges can be use to adjust, but rotating it to a flatter spot or higher up from the butress swelling is best. A removal, just shave the stem to get it to sit flat and level.
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I've never had severe trunk angles when I've employed my goods. I've always thought the rope "keepers'' would negate any issues. The upper one and either of the lower side pig tails. I do use a ring above when I need to diminish the angle of the rope at the top keeper.

Your advice is well advised though.
 
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evo said:
Some of the jumping wraps issues can be mitigated by the placement of the GRCS. If the winch is downward drooping or upwards has a huge effect.
Aiming for level or slightly upwards is best in my experience. Lighter loading a few felling wedges can be use to adjust, but rotating it to a flatter spot or higher up from the butress swelling is best. A removal, just shave the stem to get it to sit flat and level.
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I like the idea of shaving the trunk for use in removals
 
It's meant to lock in better, I think. Isn't there a 'visor' thingy to go into a kerf?

Can you tell how much I don't use mine?

Only had it 7 years.

One day I'll be super-stoked to have it.
 
southsoundtree said:
It's meant to lock in better, I think. Isn't there a 'visor' thingy to go into a kerf?

Can you tell how much I don't use mine?

Only had it 7 years.

One day I'll be super-stoked to have it.
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Great for pulling trees over, paired with a battery drill.
And yes there is a plate adapter that sits into a kerf. Never used one or needed one. I have toyed with the idea of a receiver hitch adapter but not at the cost of OEM!
 
I am a big fan of the tip tie and lift in small spaces. And like Patrick said, it makes pre-tensioning lines sooooo quick and easy. It can definitely be used more often than absolutely necessary in ways that do make some things easier and open up options. You're a creative guy @southsoundtree , I am sure you will indeed be stoked to have it one day.
 
evo said:
Some of the jumping wraps issues can be mitigated by the placement of the GRCS. If the winch is downward drooping or upwards has a huge effect.
Aiming for level or slightly upwards is best in my experience. Lighter loading a few felling wedges can be use to adjust, but rotating it to a flatter spot or higher up from the butress swelling is best. A removal, just shave the stem to get it to sit flat and level.
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Hi Evo, we already tried that trick in the past and still had issues. X-Man (David Driver) has the same issue with his and has a way to mitigate it, but he also has a Hobbs.

I think that Greg uses a newer version of the Harken Winch, so maybe there is no longer any "jumping" issues. Other than that, I love the GRCS.
 
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