regulations?

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Should the individual who temporarily owns that property be able to remove a historically or otherwise significant tree that has been there for generations providing benefits to several other properties be allowed to cut it down just because they want to

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So now you want to be the tree police to everyone? Pepole pay property tax to own the land and now your going to tell them what they can do with it? Guy has a 80' by 30' lot and a 6'doa 4 leader maple in the center of his back yard, takes up the whole back yard, and your going to tell him he can't cut it down to put in a pool cause it shades his neighbors houses and is the biggest tree on the block? If I wanted a pool that thing be gone fine or no fine. Tell me to replace it, fine I'll plant a red twig dog wood.
 
No. The community needs to be the 'tree police' to itself. This is what democracy and public policy is all about. Do you have a problem with the fact that dude will have to get a permit to install said pool? Or is the municipality now also the 'pool police?'

I recently had to get a permit to put a shed on my property. ...Yup, had to consult the 'shed police.'

It's funny, the people I always hear using the phrase 'tree police' are the guys that are in this business for the money, not for the passion of trees and tree care.

If you call yourself an arborist, you should care about trees, not just what people want you to do to them for money. It is your responsibility as an arborist to educate the consumer about the value of their trees, and recommend management practices. If you are unwilling or unable to do this, you should reconsider your occupation. This is a proud profession of ours that should not be undertaken with shortsighted goals.

-Tom
 
I understand the permits, and this is fine. I've also seen where this gets out of hand. I've seen people sell there dream house cuase they where not allowed to cut a tree. About that shed, what if they said no you'll be blocking your neighbors view, we only allow garages on the house. Not to sure you need a permit to put in an above ground pool. Course each town has it's own set of money making rules. Mine is the grass police, yea, get a ticket if your grass gets too high. Regs are fine if put in place to curb bad practices, but, not as to control the land of the owner.

Good Lord the tree hugger route, can't say I didn't see this coming in this thread some where. Care of trees or not, we are all in it for the money. I work to pay bills, so on, and so on. I'm sure you expect to be paid when you do work.
 
Yeah, I expect to be paid for the work that I do, but I have turned down many a greenback dollar for piece of mind. Before I turned down the $, though, in every case I did my damned best to try to educate the potential client about their trees, because that's my job.

The same people that use the term 'tree police' seem to love 'tree hugger' too. I guess it keeps them from being grouped with all those other dirty left wing hippie types.

...Aren't you the same Hollenreich that keeps sticking up for the Saw for Hire crew?

http://nosakraw.com/forum/index.php/topic,176.0.html

Where are the tree police when you really need them?

-Tom
 
Yup I is. Your link don't work. I didn't feel threatened by his actions at all. I know most of what he did was just done to make drama for TV. Not sure what any of that has to do with this thread? As for the left wing hippie types, I don't belive you'll find to many of them left in this feild anymore. OOO some may preach the mighty rules of care and rightousness, but, come sink or swim, most will choose swim. You might not want to belive it, but, how many companies have the big ones bought up this year. When companies like Bartlett, Savatree, and Davey's have sales meeting what do you think they discuss. How to teach the customer about tree care? Or do they talk about how to increase sales and covered area?
 
HERE IN OKLAHOMA CITY THERE IS A BIRD HOUSES PERMIT...
the nice lady told me she has only sold one in 15 years so I think a lot of people should be arrested if a new bill would allow funds for more police...
 
HR, as you have pointed out they own the land. If a river ran through it do you think they would have the rights to it? They don't. Certainly not in an urban setting. You also don't own the mineral rights either. Herein lies the problem, people look at a house and see there dream home. Oh but that tree on the lot isn't included in their dream. Simple solution, cut it down, grind out the stump, build addition, swimming pool, garage, or whatever else they had envisioned in their dream. Now the neighbours are paying for their dream in increased utility bills and water problems in their basements or even just in their yards.

I'll say it again, we need to redefine what one is entitled to on their "own" property. All cities and towns have to some degree say over what one can do on one's own property, there called zoning laws and include everything from uses to building size to finishes and fences. location of the house as well.
 
HR, you are right that any business, including ours, is sales-driven. The question is, what are we selling? I know that Bartlett and SavaTree are selling PHC and tree preservation first, because it benefits their bottom line by continued service. Removal does not. Davey, on the other hand, is much more involved in the utility industry, and much less residential. I sat on a municipal interview panel with several candidates from Davey, and to a man, when asked why they wanted out, said that the quality of service was plummetting by bid-based contracts.

-Tom
 
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You also don't own the mineral rights either

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If a river ran through it do you think they would have the rights to it?

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So if I find gold in my back yard, it's not mine? The town can come in and just take it. I know about water, it's a goverment law, no one person can own a body of water less they own all the land around it. Might not have the rights to it, but then I might be able to dam it up to a point on my part of land it runs through, redirect it, heck even dig a big hole and make a lake.

So TH your ready to give up all your rights of a free person and live the communist life. Having towns, states, and government tell you that you can't have a dream home. Less your loaded to the hilt with money, course then you can just buy off the town and do what you want.

As I said before regs are fine, I agree with some of them. I'd even like to see some to stop the bad type of work being done. Protect the town owned trees, rules for rows, and such. I just don't feel it's right to tell a land owner what he can do with his trees.

That neighbor you claim to have incressed bills, more than likly he'll be the first one banging on your door when a lead breaks off and falls on his house. Mostly threating to sue you less you make repairs.
 
Damn Holly,
you called me a cry baby.

Obviously this is a complex and complicated issue that should be addressed by our industry, municipalities, and citizens to determine the best approach to management.
I think that it makes some sense for cities/communities to have regulatory power over the green infrastructure within their borders. Whether public or private. When you buy a house in a planned community you agree to follow their rules on what color your house can be, whether or not you can have a shed, if you can park your car in the driveway, etc. OH and ABSOLUTELY NO ABOVE GROUND POOLS!! If you live in the county, hell...damn up the creek, take off all your clothes, grab some budweiser, and have yourself a good ol time... who cares? You probably don't have enough law enforcement, let alone "tree police".

If everybody spent as much energy solving problems as they do argueing about wether or not there is a problem things would probably be better.
 
Licenses and regulations mean zero if there's no enforcement. Enforcement? Pah, I've been almost laughed off the phone when calling to report serious license infractions. OSHA? I was told they have one person for the entire state of Minnesota. The only regulation is the one in your gut.
 
Trees are a very misunderstood resource and it is the arborists responsibiltity to educate the public. Cities have sidewalk inspectors, building code inspectors, etc. States have manatory licensing for electicians and sometimes plumbers, even barbers have to become state certified for $%*#'s sake... should be the same for trees and tree work.
This is some data to back up why municipalities and tax payers should be concerned with tree loss issues.

Money Talks: Studies conducted by the USDA:

Over a 50 year period, a single average deciduous tree provides $37k worth of storm water control, produces $31k of oxegen, $62k of air pollution control, and depending on its location up to $31k of soil erosion control. Total of $161,000. Not to mention increased property value and reduced energy cost benefits.
To look at it on a larger scale the Atlanta metro area trees provide $47 million worth annual air pollution control. Knoxville, TN $280 million annual storm water control.

% Canopy reports showing canopy loss or gain are key to managing sustainabilty.
 
I'd be willing to give up some rights on trees since I don't have total control over them as it is. Why does it have to be the extreme HR? TNTree-man describe it best, green infrastructure. I can still build my dream home but I'll have to find the right lot to build it on, not make it at the expense of everyone around me. Plenty of neighbours have complained when builders come in and clear cut a lot. While some may complain about a limb over their house they don't want the whole tree taken down.

Long and short of it is there are no simple answers but the curent way of doing things isn't working.
 
Thanks Humper.

I appolgize for my rant earlier.
Green Infrastructure. That is the keyword here. More and more municipalities are starting to realize the dollar value of their urban forests, and are much more interested in preserving them. The effects on stormwater mediation, urban heat islands, air quality, erosion control are way too important to continue to ignore. It takes many years to replace the benefits that one mature tree provides in these areas. We need to preserve as many of our mature trees as possible. Unfortunately, I feel like this should be addressed at all levels of Government. Trees are a National Resource and a Natural resource.
I seriously doubt that the day will come when a government agency will prevent a homeowner from acting upon the reccommendation of a certified arborist regarding necessary tree work. However, hopefully it will become possible to be denied permission to "clear cut" a lot for a shopping mall, deforest hillsides so rich bas@^&$s can have a better veiw of the lake, or cut down the 200 year old oak tree in the back yard to make room for the swimming pool.

Why is it human nature to always want to make nature conform to our expectations, and not us learning to live within a system that has functioned flawlessly for thousands of years?
 
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Why is it human nature to always want to make nature conform to our expectations, and not us learning to live within a system that has functioned flawlessly for thousands of years

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Cause we have thumbs. And if I buy land Last thing I want to see on it is a tree on it. I see enough of them at work. Plus if I have to trun the wheel on my lawn mower I might spill my beer.
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Why does it have to be the extreme HR?

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Cause once you open the door, it's over and they will just keep taking and making more rules.
 
[ QUOTE ]
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Why is it human nature to always want to make

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Why does it have to be the extreme HR?

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Cause once you open the door, it's over and they will just keep taking and making more rules.

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I agree here Holly,

The world aint going to crumble if I decide to remove my tree for whatever reason!
 
I agree its your land you should be able to do what you want. including cutting trees down. As far as water is concerned you cant even redirect water they have no sense of humor when it comes to water. I love the tree care industry. If a customer wants a tree down I will take it down if they want it down bad enough they will get somebody else to. I have talked people out of topping and cabling trees also have talked them into trimming instead of removal, but some people know what they want and you aren’t changing their minds.
 
Jim454, it's not about just you taking a tree down, it's about how many are coming down in a community. The cumulative effect.

If we can, as treeclimber1 has done, be the voice of sober second thought then great. In some cases we need regs to limit the deforestation. It will not stop it but at least rein it in.
 
HA HA! What a unique concept, land ownership.

How is it that we decided that because we gave somebody money in exchange for a peice of paper....that we somehow OWN a peice of something that for all intents and purposes is eternal? WE don't OWN the land. We only own the right to occupy it for the length of time that we or our decendants exist. Who owned it before WE existed? YOUR land will exist longer than you will. AND don't forget that the land in question was stolen to begin with. If the government wants YOUR land they will take it. Oh sure they might pay fair market value, but if they want it they will get it.

I know...i'm going off on something of a tangent. Everything that we do as individuals effects the rest of the world in some small way. It is scientific law......drop a pebble in the pond and the ripples will extend across the entire surface. We should strive to be a positive influence on our industry.

Make your money...that's what you need to survive. If a tree has to come down, take it down. Maybe you can at least convince the owner to plant the RIGHT TREE in the RIGHT PLACE when they replace the one you took down. Share some knowledge and educate your customer. Education is the key to caring...if you don't understand why you should care, then you probably never will.

THINK GLOBALLY. ACT LOCALLY.
(and no..i'm not a hippy)
 
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