thanks boreality, that is what i am doing, meeting good guys on the buzz to learn from, you know good guys like yourself. however i did see on treebuzz the ladder i am talking about, sherrill carries it, i do some orchards and these trees are quite small well not real small but not huge. so i do appreciate what you are saying. and to be quite honest i do have a little fear of too high!! this ladder though looked pretty durable for what i do. i know there is a rec. climb coming up and one of the guys on here said he would be glad to show me the way to climb, which i think was super nice. i have met matt who is on tree buzz, so any big work of course i would recommend my fellow arborists on this site, because i think that is only fair.