RADS setup

[treesandsurf]

How does the RAD's system compare with the Frog walker in terms of efficiency and speed?

Pulling with the same arm and pushing with the same foot seems like it would be an issue ergonomically if it is repeated over and over?


jp

 

[Tom Dunlap]

FW is much more efficient and quick.

These are two different applications depending on your goal and the gear that you have.

FW requires a changeover for descent unless the Unicender is used for the upper ascender. Then, all the climber has to do is exit the chest ascender and foot ascender.

With the RADS it's a bit easier to descend depending on your setup. If you have a tether from the upper ascender to the harness that will need to be removed first. Then, use the Eddy, GriGri or whatever tool is used for the lower ascender.

If the rope is tailed through a pulley with the cheeks closed the rope will double back. The climber MUST make sure that there isn't a stopper knot in the tail of the rope or the rope will jam. If the rope is left in the closed pulley the climber may get snapped by the tail when it does clear the pulley.

If the rope is tailed through the pulley with one cheek open then it's simple to flip the rope off before descent.

Jim will talk more about the use of RADS I'm sure.

In practice, RADS is quite rhythmic. Since most of the upwards energy comes from the leg the arms only tail rope and don't do much body hoisting.

With a well tuned SRT setup the body stays in a good alignment. There should be very little, if any, twisting, flexing or hyper-extending.

 

[moss]

Maybe I'm just not getting it but I tested a RADS system again recently and found that I had to pull so much rope and the vertical progress was so slow that I couldn't bear it (such suffering!

) for more than 15 feet of ascent. I can see using it for working where you frogged or jugged your way up and then switched to RADS for the ascent/descent mobility on single rope. Maybe that's how RADS fans use it.
-moss

 

[treesandsurf]

Been using the RADS system the last few days for several longer ascents. I like being able to have one foot free to push off the trunk in areas where the rope lies closer to the tree.

jp

 

[Treelimbjim]

moss:
On SRT, You'll be pulling 1' of rope for every 1' gain of height through your ascender. You'll be pulling 2' through the pulley, approximately an arm length.

On DdRT, twice as much rope, indeed.

I really don't consider the arm handling the tail of the rope to do much more than balancing the effort of the opposite leg. I don't think years of using this system would wear out that arm as much as other [insert]climbing & pruning activities.[/insert]

Glad to have your input.

treesandsurf:
Yes, one leg free can sometimes means all that wasted horsepower. I tried hanging the bottom of a Mar-bar instead of a single foot loop, but didn't find much gain.
But, as you're finding, doing in-tree work, I can still climb hand and foot, and readily advance the system.

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
moss:
On SRT, You'll be pulling 1' of rope for every 1' gain of height through your ascender. You'll be pulling 2' through the pulley, approximately an arm length.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I'm doing something wrong. Ok, I reviewed Tim Kovar's RADS (Yo Yo) instructions here:
http://www.newtribe.com/documents/tip4.htm

I see that I was doing it incorrectly, I wasn't standing on the footloop at the same time as I was pulling rope below the Grigri, I'll try again. Thanks!
-moss

 

[chris_girard]

[ QUOTE ]
FW requires a changeover for descent unless the Unicender is used for the upper ascender. Then, all the climber has to do is exit the chest ascender and foot ascender.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom, what is the best way to do a changeover to descend if using the TreeFrog SRT method and I have a Grigri?

 

[Kevin]

I still like my GRT.
Good Rigging Technique with the GRCS.

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

[ QUOTE ]
after nicking my line one time it scared the heck out me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep! That would be scary. I've thought about that possibility when I ascend and want to work of the single line.

I wonder if anyone has fully cut themselves out of a tree using a SRT.

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I still like my GRT.
Good Rigging Technique with the GRCS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the luxury of the GRCS and a electric drill to give me a ride back to the top.

I usually use it when I have already established a TIP, but came down to get water or what ever. So, technically I have a back up.

I haven't used used the GRCS without a form of back up.

(The photo shows the GRCS when tagging a tree over, but y'all know the point).

 

[Tom Dunlap]

[ QUOTE ]

Tom, what is the best way to do a changeover to descend if using the TreeFrog SRT method and I have a Grigri?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is more than one way to do a changeover.

If you're in the tree, lanyard to a secure TIP and take off the RADS. then it's a simple move to put on your descender of choice. Snug up the slack in the rope and carefully test the setup BEFORE disconnecting your lanyard. Sometimes I've had to slack off my lanyard just a bit to give me some slack to move. Not enough to allow a fall if the descent rig is setup wrong. Then, pull up the slack, unclip and store your lanyard and descend.


EDIT NOTE:

I edited my post and the following one from Laz because Laz's instructions are much better than what I had posted.

Thanks Brother!

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
I see that I was doing it incorrectly, I wasn't standing on the footloop at the same time as I was pulling rope below the Grigri, I'll try again. Thanks!
-moss

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh, I tested out RADS again, super smooth, I get the 1:1 approach now, very nice
-moss

 

[Lazarus2]

Here what I posted in Sohners thread on SRT:

To change over to descent:

1. Sit in the Croll and push up the ascension to arms length.

2. Attach descender to rope below Croll. An ID doesn't have to be unclipped from the harness so it won't be dropped. On a TreeFlex, this is best attached to the sliding bridge for convenience.

3. Adjust slack through the descender until it sits just below the croll.

4. Stand in the footloop, pulling on the ascension with the left hand. As weight comes off the croll, release the croll's cam from the rope.

5. While standing in the footloop, take remaining slack through descender by pulling with right hand (Petzl stop, ID, Grigri, The Eddy types ar most convenient here).

6. Sit back on the descender.

7. Unclip the cam on the handled ascender and let it float down the line.

Points 4,5,6 are all done together with proficiency.

The important points are:

1. There is minimal slack in the system.

2. There are two points of attachment to the rope at all times (descender goes on before ascender comes off).

Got to get some work done now!

 

[chris_girard]

Thanks Tom and Paolo for clarifying the SRT TreeFrog descending system. Makes alot of sense.

To be honest since I've started on the SRT this year I haven't had to do an aerial changeover and descent. I've always changed over when I reached my TIP for my DdRT position.

Come to think of it, this isn't a very smart thing to do in case I had had an emergency while ascending, so I won't be doing that anymore. That is why I just purchased a Grigri and will incorporate it into my SRT TreeFrog routine.

 

[chevy]

Nice system.

I alwas use my footlock prussic tied above my had assender as a back up. The had assenders are only rated at 5kn so it makes me feel better to have the back up.

 

[chris_girard]

My Croll works as a backup, so I don't have anything above my CMS Ascender.

My Grigri came in today (thanks Jim) so this weekend I will be practicing low and slow on the new tool.