Question on the Humboldt cut

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You are a hippie, admit it
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and whats with the chillies?

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Just look at the name of the cut, HUMBOLDT NOTCH. I would hope that out of all the tree dudes in the world, these guys would get it right. They cut em' now like they cut em then, they just mill it different now

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Well, with respect, I live in a place called Macclesfield. Are you telling me you’ve never heard of the Macclesfield notch? No, and why the hell should you as its in a totally different continent. But if it was recognized would you then automatically assume that it must be fundamentally right because of its origin? There’s a world outside of CA you know, no offense!

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Ha. LOL.
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I see the argument on both measures. Reg I think your logic has validity on it's surface...

However, let me ask this; Is Macclesfield known for it's logging industry? Do they have trees this big?

It would only make sense that the Humboldt got its name because of it's regional origin and with successfully bringing down huge timber. The Humboldt "title" is apropos because there must be given a name to the technique of taking down the massive trees. "Notahippie" can be a victim either. The name is what it is.

And I don't think "Notahippie" (not related to not-a-haker, BTW
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) was being arrogant with his statement either. Maybe you are simply questioning his motive for his statement.

Therefore, the "world outside of CA" doesn't have the huge Red Woods, the huge Firs, the huge Ponderosa, the huge Sequoia, etc... These trees are unique preserved right in CA, OR, and some parts of WA.--No other place on earth.

In the context of felling massive trees, like the type stated above, isn't okay that a little county in CA gets some credit for a notch in a tree being fundamentally right?

I digress...
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[ QUOTE ]
Ha. LOL.

I see the argument on both measures. Reg I think your logic has validity on it's surface...

However, let me ask this; Is Macclesfield known for it's logging industry? Do they have trees this big?

It would only make sense that the Humboldt got its name because of it's regional origin and with successfully bringing down huge timber. The Humboldt "title" is apropos because there must be given a name to the technique of taking down the massive trees. "Notahippie" can be a victim either. The name is what it is.

And I don't think "Notahippie" (not related to not-a-haker, BTW ) was being arrogant with his statement either. Maybe you are simply questioning his motive for his statement.

Therefore, the "world outside of CA" doesn't have the huge Red Woods, the huge Firs, the huge Ponderosa, the huge Sequoia, etc... These trees are unique preserved right in CA, OR, and some parts of WA.--No other place on earth.

In the context of felling massive trees, like the type stated above, isn't okay that a little county in CA gets some credit for a notch in a tree being fundamentally right?

I digress...

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Jamin

Macclesfield was actually a silk manufacturing town at one time, now days its just notorious for drunken punch-ups at weekends….But much of Europe had its share of huge trees and ancient forest thousands of years ago which was gradually removed long before our time, certainly before white man even set foot in the region that is now California…..thank God he didn’t arrive there earlier as preservation clearly wasn’t high on the agenda back then. Now days much of the huge old growth logging takes place in South America, yet those guys don’t seem to be held in quite the same esteem, I wonder why!

The ‘Our Trees are bigger than your tree’s’ arguement could easily be perceived as not only arrogant but childish, by some, but no I didn’t take it that way….although I would hardly call it objective either, as my questions were very specific and clearly not in any kind of historical context. That was the reason for my silly analogy about Macclesfield.

Of course, I wouldn’t undermine the loggers of CA, past or present, neither tree workers anywhere throughout the world. What I would say though, from one who is quite at ease with hard work and comradeship is that they were dam lucky to get the opportunity to work in such a beautiful and un-politicized environment….and I’ll bet those boys would turn in their graves if they thought that our generation had stopped thinking, questioning, adapting and evolving, instead just choosing to tow the line, hell that would almost be an insult wouldn’t it?

So please, in the context of this particular thread, I’m only interested in the mechanical justification, no need for anyone to get defensive or nationalistic....situations only ever seem to turn ugly when that kind of thinking enters the equation. We all just wanna get better right!

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"Notahippie" can be a victim either. The name is what it is.

And I don't think "Notahippie" (not related to not-a-haker, BTW ) was being arrogant with his statement either. Maybe you are simply questioning his motive for his statement.

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I do sense a protective undertone there Jamin, you sure he aint your Dad?
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The Humboldt effect is best demonstrated in tall trees. Since it takes them longer to fall there's more time for the butt to slip off the stump and take the lead in the fall to the ground. In short trees, and especially stubs, the effect of the Humboldt is often times nonexistent. Because they tip and fall so much faster.



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Would you say it's one of those techniques that someone needs to experience where it's useful, to understand when it's practical?
 
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So please, in the context of this particular thread, I’m only interested in the mechanical justification, no need for anyone to get defensive or nationalistic

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I agree. And for the record, I'm not being defensive. If it appears that way, I'm sorry. I basically thought it would be a good idea to shed light on your comment.

And Notahippie is my brother, not my dad!
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J/K
 
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Therefore, the "world outside of CA" doesn't have the huge Red Woods, the huge Firs, the huge Ponderosa, the huge Sequoia, etc... These trees are unique preserved right in CA, OR, and some parts of WA.--No other place on earth.


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hey c'mon now...
 
Hey maaan, I am Knotahippie dudebro,
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You been drinkin' again?

I grew the chillies in wood chips with no dirt, no fert. and with very little water, in a black pot, out in the driveway, in hot, dry weather and still got about 50 chillies off one plant.(compost saves lives)

But seriously, I did grow up in the redwoods thinkin' alot about how to cut em' down.

Seen a ton of old photos.

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I can’t really speak from experience as in my type of work, rarely can I justify the need for a humboldt of any kind.

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Only thing I see is it could be a waste of wood and a saw chain. With urban forests (yard trees etc.) being logged more and more, I bet this cut will become more common.

When I was younger I worked at Henery Cowell St. Park, cuttin' trails thru the redwoods (YCC not CCC, I didn't get busted, I signed up for it).

I didn't stick with it for long, but hey, I used to cut big trees, and worked with 40yr. veterans (legends), and learned more about logging than I want to know.

I thought I could help out with some local info.

By the way, did you try googling Humboldt Notch?

because I looked up "Macclesfield notch" and it came back with "Did you mean: Rip Cut?"
 
Anyone mention this already?

Was talkin' to a buddy of mine yesterday about cuts.

He showed me a drawing of why not to cut a 45 deg. back cut, which is common but dangerous.

That's a different scenario though.

I noticed somthing about the force applied on this cut and how it could relate to our fine discussion here.

When dropping any tree/spar/branch that may become hung up, it might not be a good idea to have the chunk slide off the stump (into your lap).

How to do it? cut a conventional notch with a step? But I learned that cutting a step can ***WEAKEN THE HINGE!***

With any sizable (slightly leaning?) tree the hinge must be stout(10%diam).

I ALWAYS use a Humbug... I mean Humboldt Notch, especially when somthing may become snagged (even little branches)...

...Because the people I learned from told me to,

Now lookin' at it I know why they schooled me.

Check out my humble drawing...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Anyone mention this already?

Was talkin' to a buddy of mine yesterday about cuts.

He showed me a drawing of why not to cut a 45 deg. back cut, which is common but dangerous.

That's a different scenario though.

I noticed somthing about the force applied on this cut and how it could relate to our fine discussion here.

When dropping any tree/spar/branch that may become hung up, it might not be a good idea to have the chunk slide off the stump (into your lap).

How to do it? cut a conventional notch with a step? But I learned that cutting a step can ***WEAKEN THE HINGE!***

With any sizable (slightly leaning?) tree the hinge must be stout(10%diam).

I ALWAYS use a Humbug... I mean Humboldt Notch, especially when somthing may become snagged (even little branches)...

...Because the people I learned from told me to,

Now lookin' at it I know why they schooled me.

Check out my humble drawing...

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Yeah Gord had that one covered but thanks anyway for your thoughts, drawing....and of course your sense of humour!

Here's to the humboldters then, everywhere
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Could we have a drawing of a "Macclesfield" face and explanation as to why it worked in the setting it was in?

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I just passed through town on the way home and I have to say that most of the faces were just plain miserable, like the weather here at the moment. I was only kidding about the cut, there's no such thing!

I'm not sure the town ever excelled at anything really, only silk perhaps many years ago, due to the damp climate.
 
[ QUOTE ]
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Therefore, the "world outside of CA" doesn't have the huge Red Woods, the huge Firs, the huge Ponderosa, the huge Sequoia, etc... These trees are unique preserved right in CA, OR, and some parts of WA.--No other place on earth.


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hey c'mon now...

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grin.gif
 
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Could we have a drawing of a "Macclesfield" face and explanation as to why it worked in the setting it was in?

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I just passed through town on the way home and I have to say that most of the faces were just plain miserable, like the weather here at the moment. I was only kidding about the cut, there's no such thing!


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Well, dang, ya go and gets us all werked up over somethin' new (or old, vewwwy olde....) and now you say you wuz funnin' us.....
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too bad about da long faces.....

my no likey open faces, but long ones, well, that would be me at the moment...ground werk sux donkey balz....I wanna climb......Grrrrrrrrrrrr
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Here's a pic of redwoods we did recently.

Just end weight (leverage) reduction.

Just little trees (100+) at this job...

The customer had some dudes out who told her it needed to be "thinned out" for safety. My guess is that they took WAY more than 20% (should be 5-10% or less on mature/over mature)

not to mention too many cuts close to the trunk...

...Got up about 2/3 and saw a bunch of these.

Pretty safe huh?
 

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Macclesfield face:

Three cuts to complete the face.
Only one of the face cuts is a bore cut.
Back-cut for a Macclesfield face must be from the uphill side.
Designed for strong side leaners.
Any rot makes it impossible to complete unless you utilize bark as holding wood.
Does not affect the scale.
Originally developed by a short guy with a Napoleonic complex. (Unfortunately, he is still short)
Approved by state OSHA and considered superior by fed OSHA. (Fed OSHA has a complex too)
Has replaced the fish cut. (There is a fish cut, by the way)
Isn't on my spell checker or google.

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Anybody got anything to add?
 
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Originally developed by a short guy with a Napoleonic complex. (Unfortunately, he is still short)
Approved by state OSHA and considered superior by fed OSHA. (Fed OSHA has a complex too)


[/ QUOTE ] lol, hey, I'm pretty short myself....I hope you're not trying to imply something!
 
No. er
Yes.
Well it was about two other somewhat famous fellers, er fallers.

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So how short is pretty short?

What are the heights of your stumps before flushing?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Macclesfield face:

Three cuts to complete the face.
Only one of the face cuts is a bore cut.
Back-cut for a Macclesfield face must be from the uphill side.
Designed for strong side leaners.
Any rot makes it impossible to complete unless you utilize bark as holding wood.
Does not affect the scale.
Originally developed by a short guy with a Napoleonic complex. (Unfortunately, he is still short)
Approved by state OSHA and considered superior by fed OSHA. (Fed OSHA has a complex too)
Has replaced the fish cut. (There is a fish cut, by the way)
Isn't on my spell checker or google.

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Anybody got anything to add?

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Yes, there is a chapter in this book that says the 'Macclesfield Face' preceded the North American Humboldt by approximatley 700 years.

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It also states categorically that the Humboldt was invented by the Sasquatch in 1876. I'm inclined to believe both these facts.

sasquatch01.jpg
 
A great dvd to get which shows dozens of examples of the Humboldt cut is Jerry Beranek's 100 TREES - A Tree Story Video.

This awesome dvd is about 90 minutes long and shows small, medium and large trees being cut with the Humboldt cut.

Check his site out
www.atreestory.com
 
One of the things that I noticed when watching this dvd (which is actually almost 2 hours long) is the ease at which you can adjust the gun while falling the tree.

This is not so easy to do when cutting with the open faced (70-90%) notch.
 
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