Putting a bid together on some monsters!!

[Roger_Barnett]

Check out these beauties. 2 young and healthy lombardy poplars. Only one way to do the job and that is with 2 lowering devices, preferably GRCS. Hobbs will work and portacrap might be OK..Guess how many outfits own all three in this podunk town!! (1 ld should be sufficient for one tree, but the one over the laurel may require using the other tree as a gin pole and drifting the loads across, with primary and secondary ld's to limit swinging.

Deck is built around half the trunks. Obstacles are laurel below one tree, house, and primaries. It looks to be possible to crane out the wood from below 40-50 feet, but the crane would have to boom down as he lowers the wood to stay 10 feet from the primaries.

Only method is to tip tie each branch, suck in to spar with GRCS, butt cut (2 climbers best) lower down, gingerly drift butt out with tag line. maybe chipper winch to lay it down, but must maintain 10 feet clearance from primaries. Then, the tops have to be lowered, and the main trunk butt hitched down till it is possible to fit the crane boom in safely.

I am just in the preliminary stages of the bid. Crew size will need to be 6 or seven plus flaggers for the narrow but quiet street. Street closure required for craning. Not sure abt steep slope permitting...wife thinks hubby is crazy to remove trees, heck they may be holding up the slope. But, imagine in 30 years when the butts approach 10 feet. By then, the only way to do the job would be to remove or turn off the primaries or at least shield them...and pwr co usually refuses to do this-or charge an arm and a leg..I'd reckon the job would cost $100k in 30 yrs before accounting for inflation.

Two good things are that the trees are strong and healthy and have been thinned a bit so are easy to work in.

I have an idea of the time that the job will take, and the expenses-crane, wood removal, chip volume maybe 90 yards...what do you all think and what would you charge?

The pic has annotations.

 

[Colin]

That should keep you tied up til lunch!

 

[flinger]

Roger

I'm in the throes of trying to come up with a bid on a similar job. Problem being that there is no access for a crane and very limited space to lower the branches. The Elm is about 90 feet high with a spread of around 60 feet, between two houses and spectacular gardens. No branches for first 50 feet. All wood must go and no access for Bobcat or mini-excavator to load wood!

By the way, I checked out your website. The photos are inspiring. Are you mostly into huge removals or do you dabble in pruning, restoration, etc?

 

[TreeJunkie]

15-20k might be a good ballpark range. Do you think lyou'll be able to tackle the both in one day? Even w/ 6-7 guys that might be a tough one. Although, with the right crane i suppose anything is possible.

 

[rborist1]

Rog,

Approx how tall and wide are they, it's hard to tell from the photo...........that is some large lower trunk wood. I bet they are still sopping wet down low too. I did 2 90 footers last week and they were real wet down low and this is Nov up here in the great white north............no prob with the 50 tonne though.

 

[Roger_Barnett]

They are 130-145 feet tall! Crown spread maybe 30 feet Best time to do populus is late fall and late winter when the sap is down but when it is not so cold and some sap is up to reduce brittleness, IMO...I need to look at them in the daytime..and if the client is serious, call in a crane guy to help figure out how high they can get. My guess is they could only pick some of the trunks up to maybe 15-20 feet above the primaries. Then they'd have to boom down to below the primaries (the centerpin would be appx 8 feet inside the primary) But that is all that is needed, as the upper wood can be lowered no problem, and all the brush can be GRCS'd down.

I figure 2.5-3 days total. But not sure, need to look again to see how much of each upright can be GRCS'd- will there be room to get them to the ground safely...and how many procedures are required, plus how long the topping will take. The second tree will be harder as it will need to be double tied and drifted into the first tree--at least I think so, so 2 GRCS's would be the ticket. The wood could go straight into a container. My crane expenses, thanks to Mike, could be as low as $600. Container and wood disposal, not sure, maybe $800, but could be double or triple that...
So, I reckon anything over $14-16 k might be overkill. And, if I can't get the media interested in this spectacular setting of a job, I'd be surprised. Could be some great pr!!

A perfect opportunity to demo an 18 inch chipper...then tell them I didn't like it....hehe

 

[Roger_Barnett]

Here's a low light video. Going back tomorrow to do more scrutiny and take some better pics...

http://rbtree.zippyvideos.com/gallery.z It's the 2nd file

 

[TreeDr]

If I were to do it and it took three days you are looking at approx. $18g including disposal.

 

[Mangoes]

So ........... how many men/women for $6000 USD per day? And there better be cool toys included too.

 

[johnmeiszner]

What up Mangers! My goal is 1/10th that, but then I avoid boat payments and high maintinance women like they are the plague.

 

[Roger_Barnett]

I was stuck at home all day waiting for the DHL driver to deliver an insurance replacement cell phone--had to sign for it. And, with the thick fog all day of late, I'll wait till a weather change to reconnoiter and snap more pics.

Methinx you guys overvalue your time.....Sure the job will be delicate, with the slope, house and primaries so close, but, heck, tip tying poplar leads and lowering them down with a butt tag line is pretty routine.....

Regardless of how high we can get with a crane, the job can still be handled by our inexpensive sub with his 23 ton truck mount, and he is FAST! So, along with wood removal, expenses should be around $2k. The quiet side street won't require flaggers, I don't think.
And the higher Mike can safely crane, the lower the price!!

I'd shoot for $3.5k a day for a 6 man crew plus dump expenses (if any besides fuel and time) 2 of the crew could be $15-20 an hr guys or less, the rest about $30-35. Plus I'd add on some for a buddy's chip truck to eliminate down time.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

Your price sounds fair Roger.

 

[Riggs]

A person who over values their time sounds like a person who makes money to me . Risk versus reward , that's where my numbers come in . If tree removal bids were where they should be , like two thirds more than pruning , maybe people wouldn't be taking down so many trees .

 

[Colin]

True, but generally speaking, the bucks are in the takedowns. Most people don't want to pay the price for proper trimming.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

[ QUOTE ]
Most people don't want to pay the price for proper trimming.

[/ QUOTE ]

That can be a problem. I have to say that around my area people are not too put off by a $500 tree pruning. In fact we have many clients that prune their entire yard every 3-6 yrs. Some are over $5K jobs. Some may involve cabling a tree or two or removal or two as well, but a lot of pruning goes on.

 

[Roger_Barnett]

Well, the bid is done on those bad boys, at around $11000 total. The customer is undecided-for poplars, they are nice trees, healthy and not hazardous. Scott Baker would like to see them stay for a while. He thinks the house may be torn down in a few years, so why not wait? I'll discuss maybe having Scott apply Cambistat.

But, Scott referred me to another gnarly poplar job, these a tad smaller, at 120-135 feet, but multi leadered, declining, and smack dab on a busy street. One of them is hollow, but I think it's safe to climb. Scott was to do a few more Resistograph tests on it today. Anyhow, I'm confident we can get the trees down to 60-80 feet before we bring in a crane. There's some room to drop a lot of the tops, and the GRCS will be the tool for tip lowering lots of branches and the tops that can't be flopped, as well as some of the wood. Job is sold for about $14k including 2 stumps. Crane and wood disposal costs should be between $1800 and 2800. Customer is handling wire drops, signage, and traffic control as needed.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

How many clumps total Roger? Looks like a perfect job for the GRCS. When are you going to do the job? Maybe I can hop a plane and help? /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rborist1]

Me too, me too........I will prob be in the area late Jan - early Feb for holidays. I can even bring a couple really fast saws! /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Roger_Barnett]

There's six trees, two are just little fellas...

Yep, the GRCS will make our work easier. Minor problems are the hollow shell of one of the trees (but it has a smaller leader that is sound) and the multiple leaders which diverge from a low point. We'll plan on being tied into one and work another...as well as guy them together as needed...and, do a lot of top dumping.

I put a $2000 range on the labor and a good range on the wood disposal and crane costs as well. I love it when the customer is down with that kind of arrangement, which I think is fair to both parties. The other two bidders freaked when they heard about the decay in the trees, and figured on a 100 ton crane...which at $300 an hour, is overkill, I'm sure, and not needed. Davey looked at it, and was also intimidated..and the customer didnt even give STP a chance to bid, as, in his experience, they've been way high..hmm I don't think that is always the case...and I know they'd be up to the job, though their crane is a bit small, and they now are lacking access to a GRCS...hmmm, wonder why that is....

Dang, that'd be great if either of you guys were there. Mark, you remember Scott Chapple from the TreeHouseProject, he'll be there. And young Eli, now on his own, is gung ho to climb, and he'll supply a second truck/chipper, and maybe a bucket truck if he gets it in time....(an old 50 footer for maybe $2000-3000 that needs some work; I committed to rent it from him 12 times for a prepaid $1000, now that's a deal, eh?
Plus my regular guys are both good climbers, and maybe young Robert Oxman grounding, so we'll have a good strong crew, but makin' it allstar would be schweet. (earth to Graeme...wheee) I also invited Matt Follet (Mad Matt from MB's site) to help, if he can break away from his job with my competitor Four Seasons, with whom I share ownership in the GRCS.

If you do drive down, Craig, do bring an ehp 200, I'd love to see it run! Too bad we'll prolly have this job done by then..but I have a potential third highly technical poplar job to hustle up, from two years ago, that I never finished the bid on. The customer had had a $25k bid, and laughed that off, said no way would they do that, they'd need a second mortgage. I think we could do the job for abt $16, but split it up into two phases. Here's pics of them from 2 yrs ago:

Timing will be weather dependant. I won't schedule till I see a calm and hopefully dry forecast. Shooting for anytime after Jan4. By then the ehp 346 and 5100 will be in my hands. Ed built a pipe for the 5100; eat yer heart out, Jabberwock! And I'm shopping for a video cam and Canon 1D Mark2 digi 35....

Thanks again to ya, Scott, for the referral, and you can be sure I'll be shopping for those skis I promised ya, as thanks. Now all we need is a good nuking of this dammed pineapple express...ugghhhh.

 

[Roger_Barnett]

Ahhh, finally, the middle job of the three that I posted about, is a go. It took forever for City Light to approve my customer's plans for rebuilding the service attachment on the building-- a need as the service is being changed.

About time, as the buggers are about to leaf out. Job is set for two weeks from now. Will shoot a lot of pics and video....

I already bought two pair of skis for Scott Baker as thanks for the referral.....and he's been testing them out in what was a great powder season...

but not quite what's gone down in Cali....just since March 25, Mammoth has had another 145 inches fall. Kirkwood is up to a total snowfall of 750 inches...