pushing the limits

Those low sprawling trees can be tricky Dan. Good work and video.

Not a critisism but would you not consider using a faster cutting saw than that 200t when taking out the big tops? and perhaps when working out of the bucket in general?
 
Good vid Daniel just a little thing to think about the don't run after the tree starts to fall. I saw the stumble at the last tree saw was running too. I was that way back when I first started now I know the direction it's going in by the time it hits 20 degree lean. Just step back and move watch the trunk while moving I have seen and been in those change your undies moments moving away and lose the trunk line of sight. You are doing good.
 
Really?,
I almost always pick an escape route and use it, back to tree, except when its a widow maker, that is hung tree, often on the final cut, it gets straight and can come down just about anywhere... then you have to look up as you move..

most of my falls have zero chance of kickback, barber chair, or throwing something back from the sky, thus escpae is not nearly so important as it is for timber fallers.. I could take three steps back and just watch for over 95% of my falls, with no worries.. just do the escape thing out of habit....
 
You work in a nice area for tree work; big trees and open spaces (for the most part).


I liked the double flopper at 2:50.

However, did you expect 1:46 to peel that much? Did you want that limb to peel to slow it down? Why no notch or snap cut (with the scarfs scored)?

--Just asking, not bust'n your ballz.
 
Daniel,

I know that this is going to sound like criticism, and I guess it is, but I’ve been thinking about it for a while seeing a few of your videos.

They scare me man. They really scare me. Mainly the rope rigging stuff. Ropes held, things flipping around violently, bucket boom nearby and getting wacked, truck getting wacked. Seems like the other trees in the landscape are usually getting roughed up too (maybe it doesn’t matter for your customers?)

Also lots of the stuff being cut seems like it’s under too much tension, things pop and snap quickly, seems like there is bound to be a barber chair problem one of these times. I really hope you don’t get whacked by it.

I do hope you and everyone in your crew does keep safe. I think you might be working the guardian angles a little.

I know there are people out there that work way more unsafe. Maybe what bothers me is that I figure if you are posting video of the stuff you show, you are proud of the work you show and think it is done well and safe. It looks like you guys work hard and complete plenty of jobs. The feeling I get watching your work stuff is a feeling of; “oh crap!, Oh good it just missed it!”

If you look back on your work day and can think of near misses and your thankful and surprised that certain things worked the way they did, then take serious note of that. One of these times, something isn’t going to be a near miss, it’s going to be a hit and I hope it’s not you or any of your co-workers.

What I hope by saying this is that you look at your style and try to make things more smooth and with more definite predictable planned outcomes. I hope that a year from now everyone on your crew is still healthy and safe. And your style and skills have progressed and you look back on the older videos and recognize they don’t look so great.

take care,
 
Thank you for putting my sentiments to words so elequently X, I wanted to just call him an idiot.
smirk.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
You work in a nice area for tree work; big trees and open spaces (for the most part).


I liked the double flopper at 2:50.

However, did you expect 1:46 to peel that much? Did you want that limb to peel to slow it down? Why no notch or snap cut (with the scarfs scored)?

--Just asking, not bust'n your ballz.

[/ QUOTE ]



There is a very similar cut at 7:40, both pieces move and release in pretty much the same way.. all part of the script.. NO FACE or undercut of anykind... tied off near balance point..

the cut at 1:46 was the biggest piece rigged on that tree... I didn't want to have to take that and a bunch of the others as big as I did, but the bucket was maxed.. SO I made a choice to stay in the bucket, kn owing that I'd have to reduce shock loading as much as possible... that limb was red oak 35-40' long.. rigged with 1/2" line, about 7000lbs.. NOt much room for shock loads to stay anywhere close to SWL.. Here's why it was safe..

The lowering line was 180-200', double crotched through an adjacent tree, so the lowering device was around 40' away, with the man on the ropes, standing another 10-15' on the backside of his tree...

I woudl not have taken that piece without a face, if it were not for the position of the lowsering point.. I was expecting the piece to split, but knew it couldn't come back or up at me, becase the tip was going to move sideways.. (notice on a lot of those cuts, I move away and there is a slight delay before the piece releases, which was not possible here) So even if it peeld up, instead of dowm it would not be coming back at me, it would have to move sideways, opposite the tip, which meant out and away from me.. if I thought there was any chnace of the piece coming at me, I would have notched it, or maybe cut it with the power pruner...

the purpose of this cut was to reduce shock loads.. any notch or snap cut would have meant total and fast seperation with a piece that big, which would have dropped the whole limb hard into the rigging.. by allowing the piece to split, the but stayted attached to the limb and held up somewhere near half the weight as the tips swung as gently as possible, with a piece that size, into the rigging.. then when the piece is finally cut, because it is tied near balance point, once again the movement is sweet, nice and slow into the rigging..

Check out the cut at 7:40 on that big silver maple.. its the same exact cut, with no face or undercut, and near identical movement of a big limb.. I set the rigging up on that cut from the ground..
 
[ QUOTE ]
Daniel,

I know that this is going to sound like criticism, and I guess it is, but I’ve been thinking about it for a while seeing a few of your videos.

They scare me man. They really scare me. Mainly the rope rigging stuff. Ropes held, things flipping around violently, bucket boom nearby and getting wacked, truck getting wacked. Seems like the other trees in the landscape are usually getting roughed up too (maybe it doesn’t matter for your customers?)

Also lots of the stuff being cut seems like it’s under too much tension, things pop and snap quickly, seems like there is bound to be a barber chair problem one of these times. I really hope you don’t get whacked by it.

I do hope you and everyone in your crew does keep safe. I think you might be working the guardian angles a little.

I know there are people out there that work way more unsafe. Maybe what bothers me is that I figure if you are posting video of the stuff you show, you are proud of the work you show and think it is done well and safe. It looks like you guys work hard and complete plenty of jobs. The feeling I get watching your work stuff is a feeling of; “oh crap!, Oh good it just missed it!”

If you look back on your work day and can think of near misses and your thankful and surprised that certain things worked the way they did, then take serious note of that. One of these times, something isn’t going to be a near miss, it’s going to be a hit and I hope it’s not you or any of your co-workers.

What I hope by saying this is that you look at your style and try to make things more smooth and with more definite predictable planned outcomes. I hope that a year from now everyone on your crew is still healthy and safe. And your style and skills have progressed and you look back on the older videos and recognize they don’t look so great.

take care,

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, this well thought out post will fall on deaf ears.

SZ
 
I REALLY appreciate this post X...
You expressed your concerns using "I statements".. ie... rather than call me an idiot or east coast nosak etc, you say, "they scare me etc".. that is owning your thoughgts and emotions... Great communication becasue it does not cause a defensive response... "I statements" are crucial to good communicaion in relationships..

And it also allows me to understand the mindset of the viewers.. I AM happy to repsond..

Everything that happened in those videos was part of the plan.. I was never surprised once, nor do I ever get that "OMG, thank God that worked " feeling (its been years since I've had that).. I take no chances.. learned a long time ago, its a lot faster to take the extra time needed to rig safely, than to go get the materials and fix the fence etc.. I have a 0 tolerance for mishaps, and even the slightest things that go UNPLANNED get serious attention.. so things don't even have to have a bad outcome to get reviewed and corrected..

I had an oak spar go 45º to the intended lay years ago, landed right between a dogwood and a shed, breaking one branch on the dogwood.. I stopped the job, went home to get the camera and took 142 pictures of the stump.. Nothing happenend until I understood exactly why that tree went off the lay...

So the things you mentioned.. were all expected and acceptable.. ie the dry oak limbs tips catching the dump bed, was OK, though I would have never swung something like that into the front of the truck, where a mirror or window could have gotten hit..

On the first red oak, where those two big limbs threaded the needle between the two maples, there was no damage on either of those trees, with just one small maybe 1-2" limb getting busted on a third maple, behind the two you can see on cmaera. Backyard wild trees, low value to homeowner, acceptable damage.. Its always a judgment call. I try not to do any collateral to trees and shrubs, but will accept minimal damges on certain ones, depending on their value to the customer and in my thinking..

I don't mind branch tips brushing the booms, but never swing anything appreciable into the boom.. close is OK.

Good observation on the way a lot of those cuts seperate, though I can assure you there is 0 chance of barber chair in those cuts..

That is why I called this thread pushing the limits.. There was a lot of that going on here.. May seem like taking crazy or iditic chances to the lay or inexperienced observer, BUT ITS NOT!

"ITS ALL IN THE SCRIPT"

I first heard that line, 25 years ago.. saw davey swing a 250+ lb piece of wood, right over my customers shed.. cleared by 1.5-2'.. I freaked out... I happened to know the guy running the ropes, who said "its all in the script"..

I didn't know enough back then to appreciate the level of control and knowledge that cut entailed... My thinking the cut was risky showed my inexperience... I just didn't have the knowledge and experience to appreciate that level of work..





[ QUOTE ]
Daniel,

I know that this is going to sound like criticism, and I guess it is, but I’ve been thinking about it for a while seeing a few of your videos.

They scare me man. They really scare me. Mainly the rope rigging stuff. Ropes held, things flipping around violently, bucket boom nearby and getting wacked, truck getting wacked. Seems like the other trees in the landscape are usually getting roughed up too (maybe it doesn’t matter for your customers?)

Also lots of the stuff being cut seems like it’s under too much tension, things pop and snap quickly, seems like there is bound to be a barber chair problem one of these times. I really hope you don’t get whacked by it.

I do hope you and everyone in your crew does keep safe. I think you might be working the guardian angles a little.

I know there are people out there that work way more unsafe. Maybe what bothers me is that I figure if you are posting video of the stuff you show, you are proud of the work you show and think it is done well and safe. It looks like you guys work hard and complete plenty of jobs. The feeling I get watching your work stuff is a feeling of; “oh crap!, Oh good it just missed it!”

If you look back on your work day and can think of near misses and your thankful and surprised that certain things worked the way they did, then take serious note of that. One of these times, something isn’t going to be a near miss, it’s going to be a hit and I hope it’s not you or any of your co-workers.

What I hope by saying this is that you look at your style and try to make things more smooth and with more definite predictable planned outcomes. I hope that a year from now everyone on your crew is still healthy and safe. And your style and skills have progressed and you look back on the older videos and recognize they don’t look so great.

take care,

[/ QUOTE ]
 
[ QUOTE ]
On the first red oak, where those two big limbs threaded the needle between the two maples, there was no damage on either of those trees, with just one small maybe 1-2" limb getting busted on a third maple, behind the two you can see on cmaera. Backyard wild trees, low value to homeowner, acceptable damage.. Its always a judgment call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll say this as a contract climber, what you did here is totally unacceptable behavior. You did lazy man cuts to try and make your low bids work. Doing so you broke something, be it just 2 limbs or just a slate walk plate. You my freind just did the worst thing you can do. You left the customer with a but, he did a great job, BUT he broke some limbs out of my maple and put some huge dents in my yard. You being the owner, this is just sad. If I broke some limbs a CC they friggin charge me for them. I personally say your just a fat lazy terd. You got some big BS ego thing from the arboistsite, but, your vids hold no bounds here. Most of us can take the time to go just a bit higher, rig just a bit more, Or just plain, think before we drink, and still get your jobs done on time. I'd hate to see your lawn repair bill, your top soil bill, and even dare I say your Fook up bill, cuase making them cuts I for one know you've done some bad stuff in your time. DON"T LIE TOO US WE KNOW.

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know enough back then to appreciate the level of control and knowledge that cut entailed... My thinking the cut was risky showed my inexperience... I just didn't have the knowledge and experience to appreciate that level of work..

[/ QUOTE ]

If that ASV runner wasn,t as good as he is you still wouldn't. Said this once before and I hope it dosen't come true again. But, I'll read about you in the funny papers one days.

Man who was that I said that too, was some NE jerk off with like 7-8 years in said all knids of bad stuff too me. Think his name started with a P and ended with a cake?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for putting my sentiments to words so elequently X, I wanted to just call him an idiot.
smirk.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Daniel, I wasn't calling you an idiot, that was just my initail reaction, X did a really good job asking the right questions and bringing up issues politely. One question, why didn't you just climb those oaks in the first part of the video, why the bucket? Just Curious,
smile.gif
 
HA HA holly...
what you percieve as wreckless lazy rigging, is really mastery beyond your comprehension... I finally understand what is going on.. YOU DON'T

I hate to name drop here, but will leave you all with this, from Roachy... a 6 time pen-del TCC champ...

"great stuff .Love the twin drop at the same time . Deck $550, club house $300, guy operating mini skid loader...priceless"


After that you're all gonna have to figure it out for yourselves.. cause Daddy's checking out....
 
Yeah that video to me was very scary!! The tare cuts are just useless on huge heavy limbs like that in my opinion. Especially over all the obstacles underneath you.
I have worked with a stubby bucket before, and have to agree with Holly on this! Sometime you have to climb up their, set the rigging higher, and take smaller pieces. The difference between a decent and excellent climber/ rigger is usually two steps. The excellent climber will take those two steps higher and make the cut, or walk out on that limb two more steps to tie that piece off.
Also their are many other ways to reduce shock loading than tare cuts. Ever bring the porta wrap up the tee? Use it as a block to reduce forces? Thats a cool little trick that can reduce forces on the tree. And still be able to use your rope again, so your not making it out!!! just my two cents
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hate to name drop here, but will leave you all with this, from Roachy... a 6 time pen-del TCC champ...


[/ QUOTE ]

That's pricless, I,ve worked with Jim Roachy, seems the day I worked with him he was scared to set ropes and cut a whole tree lead, I'd of tip tied twice and cut from the ground. He wanted to wait for the bucket to do it. Funny is I had others tell me Jimmy flies through trees, witch I'm sure he does. 6 times champ of what the same lame 40 climbers that show every year?

The priceless would of been to do it with the deck and clubhouse still standing there. I doubt you have the skills to do such work. I noticed this alot when working in PA. There are few that care about owners yards and stuff. Others, Should just call it smash and grab tree work.

I highly doubt you out skill me, or that you know anymore than me. I'm sure I could learn a trick or 2 from you as anyone could do. Most anybody as some little thing that someone else never thought of. Point is I don't need or want the unnecessary knowledge, I like, as many do, to do my work damage free.
 
Roachy came in 6th in the international twice, (missed the top 5 by less than a point once), and came in 8th once...

I haven't bought topsoil in years,
got a $200 tip from that customer and make cuts that you have no clue about.. though to your credit, you were the only one that had the sense to even ask anything about the censored cut...

I know what I can and can't get away with.. you should have seen the beating that hickory took on that big dead oak in the front yard.. I didn't show the worst of it, and only one small limb maybe 1" got broken.. impercievable... I wasn't getting out of the bucket on that dry stick, becasue I didn't need to..


I made over $150 man/hour last week, pulling a 60º backleaning norway maple back over a creek, on a competitive bid.. I do $100 man/hour and beat Ricks prices.

You talk $ht , but don't know it.. I AM looking forward to meeting you to see if you have the balls to call me a low balling scumbag hack to my face.. C'mon pal... let's get together...
 
[ QUOTE ]

You talk $ht , but don't know it.. I AM looking forward to meeting you to see if you have the balls to call me a low balling scumbag hack to my face.. C'mon pal... let's get together...

[/ QUOTE ]

boxing.gif


ahhh, can't we all just get along?

I don't know, Ed works hard and has "work strength". I haven't met Daniel in person, but my guess is that Hollen could bittch slap Daniel back into last week.

Thanks for taking my post well Daniel and don't let the other criticism turn you away from always improving yourself, we all should be constantly improving every year. Even superheroes like myself.

(And other buzzers, the only reason why I tried to make a sensitive post and choose my words, was because I felt it was important. I promise most of my other posts to threads will likely be ignorant, rude and attacking.)
 
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