Pulling with vehicle, etc.

hmm beyond my technical ability to establish the root cause to the fault, call the IT dept?
switch over to the tube stihlmadd arborist channel name and see if you can watch it from there?
just tried it and no problems watching it straight on the tube.
 
MARK_CHISHOLM said:
I think that it's all about knowing how much load the rope will take, what the machine can generate, and then working within the WLL of the rope. Trouble for most comes when the rope is old/damaged or under sized for the job.
Click to expand...

I agree. If marginal you really do need a back up.

I use my mini with a porty and come a long. If using a pickup I remove the hitch and put in a 5/8 (not whoopie but the other adjustable noose). I attache a come along to that and then porty it to the pull line. I yank the truck as tight as possible after removing the notch.

The truck is then chocked on both rear wheels and emergency brake is set. Come a long is often one of those red heavy duty ones I have. The rest is done with the come a long as too much chance for error with the truck doing the actual pull over. Driver pulls too hard, not hard enough, not at all, spins tires, slips it into reverse....I could even tell stories (true major damage ones) of the tree actually pulling the truck down the driveway.

Some of the consideration is getting the pull vehicle oriented in the right location...not going uphill, not on slippery grass, not having to go out into traffic to get the final pull, etc. That is why I like to set up with a porty to control pull line length and get the truck/mini set up right where I want it.

Not how to do it...

http://tractorvideos.net/tree-falls-wrong-way/
 
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Time is money and when I heard arbormaster say never use a truck to pull I was sceptical. I am glad to see a lot of you pulling using vehicles. I think it is all about experience and control. Using vehicles safely and effectively can save a lot of time and even do work in a safer manner. Pulling dangerous trees away/over rather than having to get climbers or lifts in close and work in close proximity to dangerous situations is just one example. I feel my best knowledge in these situations is one of lever arm, force at work and fulcrum. It is not so much knowing how much your rope can handle. It is all about knowing what you are putting into your rope. Calculating my lever arm, and placing my fulcrum in the right spot often results in a force that is significantly lower than one might think. Example. Pulling over 15 tonn of tree with less then 800 pounds force. Its all about the geometry.
 
treevet said:
Not how to do it...

http://tractorvideos.net/tree-falls-wrong-way/
Click to expand...

The funny thing about videos like this is that the people never even realize they're in trouble. If that were any of us in the video, with the tree notched towards the pickup, tension on rope and backcut most of the way thru, we'd be looking up to see if the top is starting to move in the right direction. If not, and you're down to your desired hinge thickness, time to pull out the wedges. Still can't wedge it over? Get the poles, set another pull line and get the 5:1 or the mini or something else helping. But nooooooo, not with these 'experts'. Just keep cutting until you blow out the hinge and she lays 90 degrees to the side. There must be 1000 videos on YouTube just like this, and another one goes up every week.
 
I often pull trees over with NO knot in the top but rather just shooting a beanie thru the canopy with the big shot, pull a double braid line thru tied to the beanie, with the throw line...then just anchor the pull line on the base with a r bowline.

(^) ".....time to pull out the wedges...Still can't wedge it over?"

I cannot recall EVER using a wedge in the cut when pulling over a tree with a vehicle. If it gets to that point...you have done something wrong and you are already in big trouble.
 
Not often will I pull trees over. I can set a mechanical advantage pretty quickly and know how much force I put on the trees. It's often not an option with most property's and back yard work ect I am in. I was hauling a log out of a ditch with a bucket once, it wasn't a large piece. My old 1/2 climbing line snapped and hit the upper corner section of the window frame leaving a large dent and smashing the whole window. I'm curious how much personal injury a snapped rope could cause if it hit someone. When I do pull a tree over, I have everyone stand at an exaggerated distance because of this.
 
Got that ...
... So once again it comes down to falling skills.. make a hinge that can be trusted 100% to get the tree to the LZ, and be 100% that the rope is stronger than the hinge... I pulled by hand for 20 years... IF I EVER tried it again, my crew would look at me like I was crazy... that's cave man style...
 
IMO following up with wedges is smart. Sometimes when doing a basal tie off (like we do most of the time), smaller limbs can break and tree can rock back, but if u are filling the gap with wedges, rocking back is minimalized.

And of course; if a rope ever broke one day, I would be happy to have wedges in there.

again, back to the main reason of pulling with a vehicle: sometimes there are situations where the tree is too brittle or hollow and basically will not have much or any hinging ability to control the direction, then you need a fast vehicle to keep the rope tight the entire length of the fall so that it does not deviate from where you want it to fall.
 
I like to use wedges on heavy back leaers... pull from the top and push from the bottom.. they do give important added lift, if your pull lines are near max.. We almost always pretension the pull line before the cut is started to see how the tree moves, and make sure there are no branches breaking up top at just the wrong moment. If a hinge/tree is strong enough top break a pull line, there isn't much chance of it going over backwards eh?

Does anyone know if arbormaster is still teaching that we should not pull with equipment. Someone refered to that earlier in the thread. Thanks
 
Good reply. Yes, pretension for SURE. Very important. Gets rid of many problems.

I don't know Daniel. You would think so. .... but what if a huge heavy tree and it was mostly weight, not hinge wood that broke the rope and there was significant travel back ?
 
I will employ a bottle jack to lessen the energy on the pull rope and reduce the risk of set back, still use wedges in the process as well as the jack, prefer to run the rope through a block attached to a solid anchor whenever one is available, does any one else use this tactic?
 
Stihlmadd said:
I will employ a bottle jack to lessen the energy on the pull rope and reduce the risk of set back, still use wedges in the process as well as the jack, prefer to run the rope through a block attached to a solid anchor whenever one is available, does any one else use this tactic?
Click to expand...

I hope one day to need the employment of a jack. never "needed" it yet.
 
Since we are all pulling things over with her vehicles despite early warnings of harbormaster telling us not to (I was back maybe seven or eight years ago)
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the pulling forceof a vehicle? Foot-pounds of torque is easily looked up on vehicles there has to be a way to calculate pulling power. Question for the math physics and engineering bufs out there
 
Found this on the web.....

In a complete car, the engine goes to a transmission, which goes to some rear-end gears, which turn the wheels. The transmission, in everything but overdrive, slows down the RPM and multiples the torque by the same factor it slows down the RPM. Most rear-end gears do the same, by a fixed factor. By the time the torque hits the road, it's been multiplied by a factor of around 6 in low gear, to maybe 1 in overdrive. So when you're starting out in low gear, the torque pushing against the ground might be as high as six times 600 pounds, or 3,600 pounds. That would let you start moving a 7,200 pound truck and trailer up a 45 degree incline.

So assuming my ranger w 250ft pounds of torque and weighing 3000 pounds can then pull about 3000 pounds. (250x6)x2 up a 45 degree incline. I am missing something here cuz that is the weight of the truck meaning it can't pull anythin but itself up a 45 incline. Rough calculation I know but have to start somewhere. I suppose that might be the limit of the truck, I never took it up a 45 degree incline, but I have pulled a bc1000 up at least 25 degrees so I am missing something. Need physics help.
 
The amount of torque and horsepower don't play as big of a role as you might think. The biggest factor in the pull of a vehicle is how much the vehicle weighs.

For example, if you have an early 2000's Dodge with a hopped up 24 valve Cummins pushing 600 ft-lbs of torque and another dodge with a standard 318 that weighs the same amount, they will both provide the same pull on a rope. Granted if you weigh both trucks down so that they have more friction, the diesel will still be able to pull after the gasser has reached it's limits on the torque converter.

I linked to a video by Terry Hale earlier in this thread that covers the geometry and physics of pulling with a pickup very well, check it out.
 
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