Pulling the plug on blue spruce?

macrocarpa

macrocarpa

Branched out member
Location
Midwest
I looked at these blue spruce today and the customer has already made up his mind he wants to remove and replace them. What do you all think, remove and replace or is it too early to pull the plug? He’s already lost most of his lower privacy screening. I am not a fan of the Fungicide foliar sprays For various reasons and cultural treatments will not help these trees enough to make a significant difference. For those of you in the Midwest what are you replacing blue spruce with that don’t get too huge for a 1/4 acre residential lots? Green giant arborvitae has worked really well for me but for some reason it feels like Its a generic option, I think just from the “people dont like arborvitae“ stigma. I just tell myself it’s a western red cedar and feel better. I wish my local nurseries grew eastern red cedar!
 

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macrocarpa said:
I looked at these blue spruce today and the customer has already made up his mind he wants to remove and replace them. What do you all think, remove and replace or is it too early to pull the plug? He’s already lost most of his lower privacy screening. I am not a fan of the Fungicide foliar sprays For various reasons and cultural treatments will not help these trees enough to make a significant difference. For those of you in the Midwest what are you replacing blue spruce with that don’t get too huge for a 1/4 acre residential lots? Green giant arborvitae has worked really well for me but for some reason it feels like Its a generic option, I think just from the “people dont like arborvitae“ stigma. I just tell myself it’s a western red cedar and feel better. I wish my local nurseries grew eastern red cedar!
Click to expand...
Con color fir
Black hill spruce
Norway spruce
Green giant arborvitae
 
VenasNursery said:
Con color fir
Black hill spruce
Norway spruce
Green giant arborvitae
Click to expand...
Those seem to be the best options! Do you operate a nursery? If so can you tell me why eastern red cedar is not more commonly available? They seem to be the honey badger of native evergreens and in central ohio there are not many native evergreens to choose from.
 
macrocarpa said:
Those seem to be the best options! Do you operate a nursery? If so can you tell me why eastern red cedar is not more commonly available? They seem to be the honey badger of native evergreens and in central ohio there are not many native evergreens to choose from.
Click to expand...

We tried the plant health care with some that weren’t in terrible shape with no success. We are pulling the plug on any that clients are sick of looking at! If they must try to save them we will offer but typically the decline due to the lack of success and our honesty about it.

I would add oriental spruce and cryptomeria to the list already provided as well
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
We tried the plant health care with some that weren’t in terrible shape with no success. We are pulling the plug on any that clients are sick of looking at! If they must try to save them we will offer but typically the decline due to the lack of success and our honesty about it.

I would add oriental spruce and cryptomeria to the list already provided as well
Click to expand...
I’ve come to the same conclusion that treatment is often futile. Not to mention the spring foliar sprays are right during nesting season for so many different birds that nest in evergreens. I loved cryptomeria when I lived in North East Tennessee but up here in central Ohio I haven’t seen it planted much? Same with Atlas and deodar cedar. Nurseries are starting to carry them but one cold snap seems to knock them out?
 
macrocarpa said:
Those seem to be the best options! Do you operate a nursery? If so can you tell me why eastern red cedar is not more commonly available? They seem to be the honey badger of native evergreens and in central ohio there are not many native evergreens to choose from.
Click to expand...
I've dug some up that did well in containers as well as bare roots in pots with a well drained media. Don't do well in acidity, high fertility, and poor drainage
 
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macrocarpa said:
I’ve come to the same conclusion that treatment is often futile. Not to mention the spring foliar sprays are right during nesting season for so many different birds that nest in evergreens. I loved cryptomeria when I lived in North East Tennessee but up here in central Ohio I haven’t seen it planted much? Same with Atlas and deodar cedar. Nurseries are starting to carry them but one cold snap seems to knock them out?
Click to expand...
They're not cold hardy here usually. Drying winter winds are brutal too
 
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macrocarpa said:
Those seem to be the best options! Do you operate a nursery? If so can you tell me why eastern red cedar is not more commonly available? They seem to be the honey badger of native evergreens and in central ohio there are not many native evergreens to choose from.
Click to expand...
We do operate a nursery

We have never stocked eastern red cedar nor has anyone ever inquired any
Not a popular tree around southern Michigan

other choices are
Dawn redwoods
Hemlocks

they are a bit more pricey thought
 
Eastern redcedar get hit by cedar-apple rust (or cedar-hawthorn or cedar-quince...). That is often a slow death for them. I see some big ones, but not a lot. I do think it is a viable option.

Norway spruce is by go-to in NW Ohio if there is room. I don't particularly like Arbs, but they certainly provide a better screen than anything else and I plant a fair number because of that (also, not taking up much space). I do like T. plicata better than T. occidentalis, but might as well plant Norway spruce.

Serbian spruce seems to hold some promise, but I haven't seen enough around for long enough to get too too excited about it.

Trees in OP: Yeah...even if you wanted to treat those, it is a long recovery. I've had some success when we catch them early enough. One thing I look at is the last 2-3 years worth of growth. If they are still adding 6-8", I feel like there is hope. If they are only adding 2-3"....even after 3 years of successful treatments, they have 6-9" of green needles and still look bare.
 
Eastern Red Cedar... a glorified juniper weed... are considered a noxious weed in many agricultural states. Around here, the county weed board aggressively goes after landowners that don't control their spread. They're almost impossible to kill, but are butt ugly when the rust is on them (cyclic) but I've never seen one die from it. They can completely overtake pasture land in a few years, and rapidly spread to neighboring farmland.

I've also never heard of anyone planting them intentionally, other than an experiment my wife and I did 15 years ago... dug up and transplanted some small ones to form a windbreak on an acreage. The original pines had all died, and we did this just to get something in their place.

Norway Spruce is popular here, as are several of the arborvitaes.
 
macrocarpa said:
I’ve come to the same conclusion that treatment is often futile. Not to mention the spring foliar sprays are right during nesting season for so many different birds that nest in evergreens. I loved cryptomeria when I lived in North East Tennessee but up here in central Ohio I haven’t seen it planted much? Same with Atlas and deodar cedar. Nurseries are starting to carry them but one cold snap seems to knock them out?
Click to expand...
We might be a bit south too which allows the crypto’s. Atlas cedar grows pretty big here but I feel has a warm weather issue in our area. Needs to be a bit cooler in the summers. And I don’t think it’s an adequate screen. Another we planted a bunch of a few years back is juniperus chinensis ‘keteleeri’. Those have been doing very well as a road screen as they deal with salt very well. Another option at the time was Juniperus C. ‘Hollywood‘ Just another tool in the box to maintain diversity.
 
Upright Norways in 20 gallon containers would be nice to have available and easy to plant. I see a random one here and there at the nursery but nothing consistent. As for the eastern red cedars, i’m watching so many other evergreens die from fungal diseases and saturated soils and I see lots of mature red cedars that look nice and healthy along the roadsides which makes me think Of reconsidering their bad rap. What other truly native evergreens are there in Ohio?
 
White pine is the next most wide spread...but can't take heavy clay or much moisture. Hemlock (in very few spots). Virginia, Pitch, and Table mountain pine down in the hills (not recommended for most of the State...just that they are native). The other conifer is Eastern larch in some of the bogs of NE Ohio. None were widespread.
 
Too bad hemlock doesn’t like our central ohio clay. They seem to do well in the older towns like Bexley where the urban forest is mature. I dread the day HWA populations explode in hocking hills & mohican etc. Still need to check out that larch bog in Kent (I think its in Kent?).
 
macrocarpa said:
Upright Norways in 20 gallon containers would be nice to have available and easy to plant. I see a random one here and there at the nursery but nothing consistent. As for the eastern red cedars, i’m watching so many other evergreens die from fungal diseases and saturated soils and I see lots of mature red cedars that look nice and healthy along the roadsides which makes me think Of reconsidering their bad rap. What other truly native evergreens are there in Ohio?
Click to expand...
Do you have room for a fenced in gravel pad for a small nursery? That way you could stock up early in the season before things get sold out as well as grow some bare roots.
 
macrocarpa said:
Upright Norways in 20 gallon containers would be nice to have available and easy to plant. I see a random one here and there at the nursery but nothing consistent. As for the eastern red cedars, i’m watching so many other evergreens die from fungal diseases and saturated soils and I see lots of mature red cedars that look nice and healthy along the roadsides which makes me think Of reconsidering their bad rap. What other truly native evergreens are there in Ohio?
Click to expand...
There is a good book called Trees of Ohio or something like that. Shows every species as well as every county they are found in
 
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