Petzl ZigZag letter

[JTree]

Yup. Hit the awakenings area. It'll keep your complacency low.

 

[evo]

This is getting emotional... I could go on, and on as I'm sure you can since the childish insults, and pack mentality are coming out. That would be a waste of time though. I'm just simply stating my thoughts and reasoning.

 

[Stihlmadd]

we don't need to pester any qualified, educated or highly experienced engineers

or they sometimes come along and rescue us.

 

[JiKeidan]

Luckily for us, bonner, we don't need to pester any qualified, educated or highly experienced engineers for our information. We can just log onto an internet forum and get the lowdown from any number of highschool dropouts with a sledge hammer in one hand a beer in the other.

I'm a pro beer handlin sledge swingin drop out, yo. ask me anything xD

 

[Steve Connally]

Do you all realize no one is gonna win this argument? I'm 100% pro zigzag. No issues with mine.

If you're not, don't but one. I won't preach to you and you don't preach to me.

This thread has become ridiculously off track from the initial intent I suppose.

 

[Treespotter]

Yup. That's what happens on a forum. Two pages on topic and than the shit hits the fan.

Wolter

 

[tuttle]

its more of a chit chat, with ideas, thoughts, experience, knowledge, debate, and alternatives, if petzl are reading it, alot of everything will make sense, its not about one to one, but a global thing. Hopefully petzl will come up with different options.

 

[Steve Connally]

Sounds like it's stooped a little lower than chit chat.

 

[tuttle]

because some take it personally, pride is a thing people put first

 

[treehumper]

According to Petzl, about 2 per 1000 units.



I'm a fan of the ZZ, obviously, but I'd agree with that.



I paid $240 each for mine, when Bartlett was running a 20% off on Petzl special. I know all too well that early adopters of any new technology or product usually pay a premium price and have to deal with a device that will undoubtably need improvements and fine tuning. Mine are the version 2 ones. The warranty is good enough that I wasn't too worried about it. It's now extended to 10 years for the crack issues. I figure that by the time I have any cracks develop, I'll get a couple of new ones that don't have the issue, and it will only cost me the shipping. I think that is an acceptable risk, for myself. I held out for version 2, but I think holding out for version 3 or 4 is certainly a valid approach for anyone that's played with one, and wants to try one. It's not like a hitch climber is so awful that you just can't wait.

My experience with the ART products was a disappointing high wear rate on the components, and fairly expensive replacement kits. They're even more expensive than the ZZ, as well. Price we pay for progress, I guess.

My good fortune, ironically, is that I don't have money burning a hole in my pocket. I've looked at a lot of mechanical devices and weighed the pros and cons. Your experience with the ART products mirrors my concern. The costs far outweigh the benefits in the end analysis so, I can't in good conscience spend the money on them. With the ZigZag, it was looking pretty good, if I could calculate the life of the product vs. the current system I use and the costs. At $240 how many years of use? For $240 how many years of use to I get now? Is there a significant gain else where, productivity, ergonomics, rope wear?

The crack has become a wildcard in the equation. Will it happen in 2 months or 2 years? Once it does is the device rendered useless or is the warranty void if use is continued? I then need to address that by either having a back up (another capital cost) in order to mitigate downtime. It's an objective decision for me.

 

[tuttle]

TBH a lockjack is a better option, the wear is minimal for me, and the costs to replace the clutch is far cheaper than a burnt out prusik.

 

[treebing]

The zig zag says that you can descend it th zig zag SRT in conjunction with a munter hitch. It has a picture of someone Doing it. My question is if a munter hitch is rated as PPE?
The links on the zig zag should not crack period.

 

[JeffGu]

Once it does is the device rendered useless or is the warranty void if use is continued?

I have a hitch climber setup that I take with me everywhere. It's my backup and sometimes second climbing line (usually using one line plus long lanyard). Technically, I suppose you void the warranty if you don't immediately return it for a replacement. I think I'd send it back right away.

The links on the zig zag should not crack period.

The brakes on a car shouldn't fail, either. But they do. A computer's power supply shouldn't fail. They do. Jet engines shouldn't break when they hit a Canada goose, but they do. Every single technology that was ever invented went through growing pains. Why should this one be any different? As others have said, if you don't think the things are safe, don't buy one.

 

[tuttle]

A nice long 6 wrap eye2eye is great for srt descents, as is a fig8, both cheap as chips.

 

[JeffGu]

A nice long 6 wrap eye2eye is great for srt descents, as is a fig8, both cheap as chips.

True enough. A sledge hammer is cheap, too, compared to a backhoe. I know which one I'd rather use to tear my driveway out.

 

[Treetopflyer]

True enough. A sledge hammer is cheap, too, compared to a backhoe. I know which one I'd rather use to tear my driveway out.

You could hit rope with a sledge hammer too ,but I wouldn't climb on a zigzag before or after you hit that bitch with a sledge. Lol

 

[Steve Connally]

The zig zag says that you can descend it th zig zag SRT in conjunction with a munter hitch. It has a picture of someone Doing it. My question is if a munter hitch is rated as PPE?
The links on the zig zag should not crack period.

A Munter hitch can't be rated. It's a hitch, a thing to add friction to an object working to slow gravity. It's not rated any more than a clove hitch is rated. However you can calculate the strength loss for a clove hitch and I suppose a Munter also

 

[Leroy]

I thought the munter was frowned upon because the friction is made from rope on rope? whereas an 8 is more safe?

 

[treebing]

I believe that Petzl chose a munter because everyone has one on them at all times.

 

[Leroy]

As I began climbing srt with the wrench a few years ago one of the first things that I was taught was to carry an 8 should the wrench become comprised.