Petzl ZigZag letter

Wet weather or dry weather?, a hitch in the dry is the sweet thing in every aspect.....but in the wet!...grrr

One of my first comments in the ZZ before its release was what it would be like with sap and mud in the links.

Everyone baby cradles it, then climbs on it....bit of contradiction in terms.
 
On faster descents, you can actually see the water spray out the sides and bottom of the links as it pushes it out of the way. Rain happens. I make a point not to let mud and sap build up on any piece of climbing gear, so I wouldn't know about that one. I have a modern, high-efficiency washer that doesn't use as much water, and it doesn't have the agitator coming up through the stainless tub. Easy to wash ropes in, don't have to put it in a pillow case or whatever. Big machine, 200' of 1/2" fits in there easily.

I'm not sure if the things I do constitute "babying" the equipment. I do whatever I think will make it last as long as possible, and perform like new for as long as possible. I have a huge respect for quality tools, since they pay for themselves over and over again when you take care of them. The best of them won't last long if you never clean them and treat them like crap every time you're in a pissy mood.

I have friends who clean their motorcycles with a toothbrush and have 97 chemicals to polish chrome, leather, you name it. Spend hours in their driveway or garage making the thing shine like new. Weekend warriors with ten year old motorcycles with only 1400 miles on them. Everything else they own looks like shit, and never gets a minute of attention other than the occasional kick and extremely profane rants about what a pile of crap their truck is, that's never had an oil change and gets driven down gravel roads at 85 MPH all year.

I buy motorcycles to ride them, not decorate the driveway, so they get some miles on them and regular maintenance. But they don't stay showroom shiny forever, and I have a lot of things I'd rather do than scrub them with a toothbrush and Farmer Fred's Shiny Ass Chrome Polish.

I think climbing gear is good equipment and deserves the regular maintenance and care I give my bikes, but I don't sit in the garage with Ivory dishsoap for six hours trying to get the bug shit out of the crevices and cracks.

Just sayin'.
 
So I own two zig zags now,,, thank you guys who hate, I shall have a longer climbing career,, not blowing my elbows pulling slack...
Here's something weird I have art lanyard and zag ,,,,,tried the the spider jack loved it however I wonder if I can beat a dead horse about the fact every time I wore spikes and hit the lever on it, I was almost blowing out my knees... Maybe I should bash art for making somthing to good,,, I mean just not safe.....
 
Fairfield said:
Not trying to be a voice or start problems, I just want other climbers to have a safe means of work or rec while on rope. So I wrote this short to the point letter to Petzl regarding the ZigZag and Zillon problems. I asked for an answer back and if I ever see an answer back will post for you all to see. This is the letter.......

It has been a well documented issue of the amount of failures happening with the ZigZag and now Zillon. From cracks to full blown break a ways. At what point does Petzl need to get to before they pull the sale of these particular pieces of kit? Are we just waiting for a climber to bounce check the ground? A ten year warranty does nothing to fix the problem nor keep climbers safe. We expect better from a leader in the industry of climbing. At what point will you do the responsible thing? A real answer back would be appreciated as I will be posting this email to popular forums for the climbers that are there to judge for them selves your level of attention to this matter.

Climb Safe, James Fairfield
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Do you own a zig zag? Has someone you know had issues or injurys?
 
It would be good to know what the failure rate has been. Just read about another one that has a crack, 1 yr old.

In the end, it's a product designed to do a specific job and it's not standing up to the wear and tear. Like all our tools, it has a duty cycle yet, I would speculate that it isn't meeting its designed lifespan. Will I pay $300 for something like that, nope. For now, eye n eye and hitch climber will do.
 
treehumper said:
It would be good to know what the failure rate has been...
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According to Petzl, about 2 per 1000 units.

treehumper said:
...I would speculate that it isn't meeting its designed lifespan...
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I'm a fan of the ZZ, obviously, but I'd agree with that.

treehumper said:
Will I pay $300 for something like that, nope. For now, eye n eye and hitch climber will do.
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I paid $240 each for mine, when Bartlett was running a 20% off on Petzl special. I know all too well that early adopters of any new technology or product usually pay a premium price and have to deal with a device that will undoubtably need improvements and fine tuning. Mine are the version 2 ones. The warranty is good enough that I wasn't too worried about it. It's now extended to 10 years for the crack issues. I figure that by the time I have any cracks develop, I'll get a couple of new ones that don't have the issue, and it will only cost me the shipping. I think that is an acceptable risk, for myself. I held out for version 2, but I think holding out for version 3 or 4 is certainly a valid approach for anyone that's played with one, and wants to try one. It's not like a hitch climber is so awful that you just can't wait.

My experience with the ART products was a disappointing high wear rate on the components, and fairly expensive replacement kits. They're even more expensive than the ZZ, as well. Price we pay for progress, I guess.
 
There is already. Thick headed as they obviously are they first wanna sell their stock! To the unaware. Not for me. I'm going to wait until after their 2014/week 48 shows up on their series number.

Wolter
 
This whole 15kn thing seems to be a recurring thing. I was always taught that life support needs to be 22.5kn. Then the sequoia came out with the 15kn gold rings, granted they work in a pair. Does any one know what the new rings are rated for, or the new rope bridges?
 
European standards require certification of systems. individual components are less important than in the US. new Ring Opens from Petzl are 23kn but a lot of Euro stuff is only certified to 15 kn. But trust me, if your body sees over 3k lbs you wont live to discuss the difference between 15 and 23kn!
 
Bonner I do understand that I would die from a 15kn force. Taking into account of cycles to failure this seems to leave a very small margin. I just looked up the spec's for the rings before you responded, and it's nice to see the rings beefed up. What about the bridge 10mm pruner cord, how many cycles will those handle at what load? These saddles are only rated for 220lbs? I only weigh 160 with boots on, but add some gear then I'd be pushing it. Not day in and out production gear imo, but some bad ass rec climbing gear or light duty pruning. If I'm paying for quality gear I want it to do it all, this is why I am personally now avoiding petzl..
 
bear in mind things that affect your rig don't always affect your body, especially for the working climber. I've seen people lifted quite a ways because they simply didn't make sure to be on the right side of things before making a cut... the recoil hurt like hell I'm sure, but they never plummeted
 
I believe that the engineers at Petzl, and the risk evalution that they do far outweigh my academic prowess. All the numbers are great, but the word of a trustworthy company is more important, given that I dont understand the methods and data fully.
 
bonner1040 said:
...given that I dont understand the methods and data fully.
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Luckily for us, bonner, we don't need to pester any qualified, educated or highly experienced engineers for our information. We can just log onto an internet forum and get the lowdown from any number of highschool dropouts with a sledge hammer in one hand a beer in the other.
 
JeffGu said:
Luckily for us, bonner, we don't need to pester any qualified, educated or highly experienced engineers for our information. We can just log onto an internet forum and get the lowdown from any number of highschool dropouts with a sledge hammer in one hand a beer in the other.
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What exactly are you saying Jeff?
 
tuttle said:
More to the point, stay away from tree work if you don't know what your doing.
So many people die every year, thinking that cutting trees is easy, and climbing using basic old school kit, and ladders.
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fair enough, but it happens to the best regardless
 
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