- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
You or Teti?
Pay by the day?
- Thread starter NickfromWI
- Start date
- Location
- magalia california
I think a daily rate is great . When I hire guys I hire them by the day, Equal to the hourly rate they are already getting . Average day is about 4.5 to 6.0. Thier insentive to get the ground work done sooner, is greater than if by the hour.
Greg
Greg
Employers like to take advantage of the by the day pay the few services That I worked for always say when hiring me that they pay climbers for the full day even when it's a half day.Until that half day comes then they change their answer real quick.
another employer would find out my crew was finishing about 3 or 4 and pile on more jobs which did not do well for my crews attitude. so when we would finish the jobs for the day I would take them back to my house to hide out till a decent time to say we were finished.
another employer would find out my crew was finishing about 3 or 4 and pile on more jobs which did not do well for my crews attitude. so when we would finish the jobs for the day I would take them back to my house to hide out till a decent time to say we were finished.
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
Most employers have been employees so they have a basic idea of what employees have to put up with.
I submit that most employees haven't got a clue what employers have to deal with. No idea of the regulation, scrutiny, investment of time and money, sacrifices and risk employers take just to be able to hire someone.
It amazes me still that people are willing to stick their necks out and subject themselves to all sorts of abuse and risk just to be able to hire someone.
There is a time and a place for everything and I think MB has a point that at some time towards the end of the day you gotta look at winding down.
But everything has a cause and effect and as long as there is a preponderance of employees whose sole goal is to do as little as possible in order to get paid as much as possible then employers are going to be reluctant to cut people loose early with a full day's pay.
Smart employers know who the best teams are. They may keep a crew's plate full as they become more efficient but they will also probably end up keeping that crew over another when layoff time comes.
That is unless, of course, they are hampered by overly restrictive contracts, regulations or threats.
I submit that most employees haven't got a clue what employers have to deal with. No idea of the regulation, scrutiny, investment of time and money, sacrifices and risk employers take just to be able to hire someone.
It amazes me still that people are willing to stick their necks out and subject themselves to all sorts of abuse and risk just to be able to hire someone.
There is a time and a place for everything and I think MB has a point that at some time towards the end of the day you gotta look at winding down.
But everything has a cause and effect and as long as there is a preponderance of employees whose sole goal is to do as little as possible in order to get paid as much as possible then employers are going to be reluctant to cut people loose early with a full day's pay.
Smart employers know who the best teams are. They may keep a crew's plate full as they become more efficient but they will also probably end up keeping that crew over another when layoff time comes.
That is unless, of course, they are hampered by overly restrictive contracts, regulations or threats.
- Location
- Austin, TX
[ QUOTE ]
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
At the start of the day he was happy to get X done for a day's pay. That was the deal he made with the crew. Then when they do a good job and earn a little afternoon break, the deal changes. That's not fair. That's removing the only incentive to make a day rate good for climbers, IMO.
I actually prefer a system where the deal is for x work= y dollars. You can do it in a day or a week depending on your mood, your need, your desire, your personal life, etc. Of course, if a 4-hr. job consistently takes you a week to finish, that won't make you look like a good choice for the next job that comes along . . .
k
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
At the start of the day he was happy to get X done for a day's pay. That was the deal he made with the crew. Then when they do a good job and earn a little afternoon break, the deal changes. That's not fair. That's removing the only incentive to make a day rate good for climbers, IMO.
I actually prefer a system where the deal is for x work= y dollars. You can do it in a day or a week depending on your mood, your need, your desire, your personal life, etc. Of course, if a 4-hr. job consistently takes you a week to finish, that won't make you look like a good choice for the next job that comes along . . .
k
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
[ QUOTE ]
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
No, thats not theft on the part of the employees. It IS theft on the part of the company for stiffing the labor on a deal they had made.
Really its no different than when you bid $1000 to a customer for a job and they happily accept and when you finish in record time they refuse to pay and demand you "extra stuff" because they didn't realize how quickly you would do it and didn't feel that you "Earned" the money
If the deal was here's your list for the day, and they work on a day rate, and finish to spec early then adding more unexpectedly is breach of contract. That is unacceptable.
[ QUOTE ]
At the start of the day he was happy to get X done for a day's pay. That was the deal he made with the crew. Then when they do a good job and earn a little afternoon break, the deal changes. That's not fair. That's removing the only incentive to make a day rate good for climbers, IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree whole heartedly. If the deal was "here's your runsheet for the day" and they're working by the day then they shouldn't be shafted like that.
If it looks like something might be added they should be made aware before they start not blindsided.
In order for any of this to work to everyone's advantage the communication has to be clear and up front/
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
No, thats not theft on the part of the employees. It IS theft on the part of the company for stiffing the labor on a deal they had made.
Really its no different than when you bid $1000 to a customer for a job and they happily accept and when you finish in record time they refuse to pay and demand you "extra stuff" because they didn't realize how quickly you would do it and didn't feel that you "Earned" the money
If the deal was here's your list for the day, and they work on a day rate, and finish to spec early then adding more unexpectedly is breach of contract. That is unacceptable.
[ QUOTE ]
At the start of the day he was happy to get X done for a day's pay. That was the deal he made with the crew. Then when they do a good job and earn a little afternoon break, the deal changes. That's not fair. That's removing the only incentive to make a day rate good for climbers, IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree whole heartedly. If the deal was "here's your runsheet for the day" and they're working by the day then they shouldn't be shafted like that.
If it looks like something might be added they should be made aware before they start not blindsided.
In order for any of this to work to everyone's advantage the communication has to be clear and up front/
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
[ QUOTE ]
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
Steve, what you're saying would tell me and my crew that the goal is not to finish these jobs as quick as we can...rather, the goal is to finish as close to 4pm as possible. Late enough that we don't get another job at the end of the day, but not so late that it's bed time when we get home.
I really think hourly is the best way to pay. Milking the clock only exists on crews where the bosses don't know or don't care what the crew is REALLY doing.
love
nick
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
Steve, what you're saying would tell me and my crew that the goal is not to finish these jobs as quick as we can...rather, the goal is to finish as close to 4pm as possible. Late enough that we don't get another job at the end of the day, but not so late that it's bed time when we get home.
I really think hourly is the best way to pay. Milking the clock only exists on crews where the bosses don't know or don't care what the crew is REALLY doing.
love
nick
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with Steve, it amounts to employee theft. Nick's solution that he and his crew is going to slow down and expand the work to fill out the day because if they "get done at 3" they might have to do more work is sad. It's really no better than the mentioned practice of "so when we would finish the jobs for the day I would take them back to my house to hide out till a decent time to say we were finished. ".
I've had employees that think like this in the past. Usually some of the harder working crew members get tired of taking up the slack and it causes friction in the crew and the slacker ends up leaving.
thats paramount to theft. why shouldnt he give you an extra job to do at 3? after all, hes employing you to earn him money! too many employees seem to think they're owed something in this game......if the role was reversed you'd probably be just the same
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with Steve, it amounts to employee theft. Nick's solution that he and his crew is going to slow down and expand the work to fill out the day because if they "get done at 3" they might have to do more work is sad. It's really no better than the mentioned practice of "so when we would finish the jobs for the day I would take them back to my house to hide out till a decent time to say we were finished. ".
I've had employees that think like this in the past. Usually some of the harder working crew members get tired of taking up the slack and it causes friction in the crew and the slacker ends up leaving.
