opinions on an oak

Yeah, and i'm thinking put a red X on that oak too! I love oaks (pin oaks not so much) but i've seen too many cable bracing failures on trees like that were pruned & cabled properly w/ multiple cables!!!
 
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You the arborist shoulder the risk if you perform that service.

[/ QUOTE ]How does that happen? If the owner makes the decision, the owner shoulders the risk. The arborist takes on no extra risk by properly doing proper arboriculture. The owner owns the tree and so should own the decision and own the risk.

If the arborist is rash enough to make a recommendation on a high-risk tree, then s/he exposes him/herself to needless liability. If asked for an opinion, abstain. Simple.

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I almost launched into a tirade about how we're the pros and should be offering opinions to help people decide tough cases.

But then I think I saw your point. We should be doing the science--how deep is the cavity, how thick is the live tissue, how much can we reduce the top, etc.--and telling clients the risk is high, med, low, or none. The decision is then theirs.

To help clarify this for people, I often remind them that I can revisit my trees as often as I want. When they say, "What would you do if this was your tree," they really mean "What would you do if you were me." If it were my tree, I'd maintain 6-12 inch roof clearance, for example. If I have to clip a little more every couple of months, I'm happy to do so. But most clients aren't going to be happy calling a crew out every few weeks to maintain clearances. They want it to last awhile.

So I can't say what I'd do if I were you. Your affection for the tree, your tolerance for risk, your insurance policy and your budget are only a few factors that might influence your decisions. I'll inform you to the best of my ability, then make the best of your decision.

k
 
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So I can't say what I'd do if I were you. Your affection for the tree, your tolerance for risk, your insurance policy and your budget are only a few factors that might influence your decisions. I'll inform you to the best of my ability, then make the best of your decision.

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Very well put--you got my point perfectly. I had one of these just the other day. Here's the report:

ASSIGNMENT
I was asked by Ms. to inspect a tree managed by inc. in the greenway south of Drive in to assess the risk it poses, and recommend management strategies to lessen that risk. I was also assigned to inspect trees at... Road
GREENWAY OBSERVATIONS
The greenway tree is a southern red oak, Quercus falcata. Its top looks like it was broken about ten years ago, possibly by Hurricane Fran. Its base had small round crunchy black fungal structures, of the genus Inonotus, in one crevice between buttress roots. It had a cavity in another crevice, without signs of fungus. I excavated loose soil and decayed wood, and found active scar tissue around the cavities. I found vigorous root growth directly beneath the two affected crevices. The only other defect in the trunk was insect activity evident in one of the holes made by climbing spikes.
RISK ASSESSMENT
This tree appears to have a very low risk to fail. There is no way to be certain of the extent of the decay inside, but all exterior signs show that the tree is actively walling off and outgrowing whatever interior decay there is.
homesite OBSERVATIONS
A small red oak in the SW corner of the yard has recently had lower branches removed. This makes the tree top-heavy and imbalanced. Holes in the trunk indicate the climber wore spikes to ascend the tree. This method is not in compliance with ANSI standards and is damaging to the tree, as noted in the nearby red oak. A nearby sweetgum was leaning toward the house, so it was removed. I pointed out that pruning the sweetgum may have corrected that lean at a lower cost to the homeowner. With the sweetgum gone, the red oak is subject to higher wind loads. All told, this recent work has greatly increased the level of risk posed by the red oak. See the attached article on risk mitigation.
A large pine tree in the middle of the front yard has a scar halfway up the trunk. From the ground, it appears that there is a considerable amount of woundwood strengthening this area of the trunk. If this area shows a significant hollow, greater than one-half of the cross-sectional area, the risk of failure may be considerable. Less than that, and the risk may not be great enough to warrant any action.

I looked at a white oak in the greenway near the driveway. It has a dead stub where a lower branch was improperly pruned. This does not appear to be of structural significance. It has a narrow-angled fork near the top, and the tree has been growing toward the house in search of sunshine. A light reduction of these branches will greatly reduce the risk of failure.

I was told about the hollowness of another oak that was cut down. No pieces were left to substantiate this depiction. Considering the spiking of the red oak, and the quickness to judge the pine defect as terminal, it seems that the present contractor may not currently have the competence or objectivity needed to inspect trees and assess their risk. (See the attached article on risk assessment) Before they measure the decay in the pine tree, they should be reminded that an arborist may be reinspecting the tree to confirm their findings.

It was my understanding that residents were required to obtain a permit before removing trees in this neighborhood. Had these residents gone through the proper channels, they might have avoided the damage to the red oak, and the needless expense of the other tree removal. I do not know what enforcement is possible after the fact, but if the resident replanted trees in their own yard, and paid to install trees in the area off ...Drive where the sycamores were recently lost, that would replace part of the canopy that was improperly removed.

This concludes my report. Please contact me for clarification or questions.
 
For the record, I agree with you, Guy. But every seminar I've attended regarding Trees And The Law stresses that if it's not in writing that the silly client chose the risk, then you as the arborist are open to attack. I think the risk comes in the phrase, "properly doing proper arboriculture". Even here, all of us highly educated, incredibly talented arborists have different opinions of what should be done. All I'm saying is to make sure the client signs off, knowingly accepting the risk. It's easy to get a signature before the job. My 2c.
 
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if it's not in writing that the silly client chose the risk, then you as the arborist are open to attack. ..All I'm saying is to make sure the client signs off, knowingly accepting the risk.

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100% Correct. I've had jerkwad customers ask me to guarantee my work on trees that they had malignantly neglected for 5 years.

Their tree, their specifications, their risk. You don't need to spend a day with Merullo to know that, though there are worse ways to spend a day.
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Reduce, brace, and cable. I don't believe dynamic cable would be appropriate in this case. The union IS failing and requires rigid support. If bracing is required, we use static cable. An arborist I subcontract with has been cabling for 20-plus years. He has NEVER had a brace/cable job fail. Every year we're pruning (and sometimes removing) trees that his company cabled in the past. Trees that a half-dozen other contractors recommended removing. If the owner wants it down, then take it down......... looks like a brace and cable job to me.
 
So over a year later (and several consultations beside my own) this client has finally hired us to remove this tree.

I looked at it today and I believe the crack may have widened a little.

It's going to be some slow going...
 
It's always fun listening to what different Arborists from different parts of the country/world have to say about the same project: the value of this site in action! good stuff.

My opinion...
Being an Arborist I know that (by looking at a photo only, not the live specimen) oak trees in general are supremely strong, however; oaks have straight grained wood, which is what allowed the structure to pull apart as such (along with years of included bark, likely). The darkly stained wood indicates decay within the cavity and the clients waiting instead of acting has only made things worse. The tree can be saved, but for how long? We certianly, as stated above many times have the ability to put the tree on artificial life support via cables etc. though unless the cliet is well versed in trees and tree care they won't be able to sleep too well when the wind starts to blow.

Unfortuneatly there is decay within the cavity, and as the dentist will tell you, "decay will only continue to get worse." Now the question is, "how much of the structural integrity has been compromised?"

When you cable a tree you must not assume the tree is FIXED. It will have to be monitored and this will be the sole responsibility of the operating arborist. If one forgets about the tree once it has bee cabled and momentarily saved the ongoing decay will clean out the centre of the tree and Huston, we will have failure!

Save the tree, prolonging it's life for ten years, or remove and replant. In the same amount of years you could have a nice size tree of a different species established.

Thinking for the future: remove and replant.

Climb it, strapping it together as you go up once or twice and lift the pieces away with a crane so as not to put too much stress on it... but honestly... it's oak and I get ten pills to a tea bone you could rigg the whole thing down with ropes and not even need to strap it together (though that's not my recomendation).
 
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