Old school /new......

So when did we make the transition? I would imagine that those in the know can pinpoint the date. Does it matter? Not really. Like every industry we're going through the Adoption/innovation curve. The question is which category do you fall into and are you satisfied with what your business achieves for you?
 
yeah the term new school and old school when it comes to climbing makes no sense to me. monkeys and squirrells climb old school; we just do the best we can.
 
ive also never heard anyone belittle "old school" climbers like you suggest riggs. everyone I know has the utmost respect for our elders. Spiking prune jobs is just lame though it doesnt matter how old you are.
 
Too often the issue that arises with "old school" is the lack of PPE. It is not the rigging techniques or even access method (with the exception of pruning with spikes).
 
My first tree job was in 1992. It was a company that had passed to a third generation. The grandkids hadn't learned anything new since the old man died. I was taught to climb on arborplex (okay, they learned one or two things) tied into a bowline-on-a-bight with a tautline on the tail. They recommended I consider buying a rock saddle for comfort. I never heard of a footlock prussik (though I was required to prove I could footlock unsecured to get the job) or a safety lanyard.

The work we did was all flush cuts, but they knew that was a loaded term so they called them conventional cuts. We painted every cut on every species with roofing tar. We installed drains at the base of cavities.

My second tree job was about a year later. We made collar cuts and generally followed the advice of Shigo regarding tree care, but I still climbed on a rock saddle for a year or so. They finally talked me into using a lanyard after a few months. I bought my first tree saddle (and helmet) to compete in 94. That competition included a demo by Rip and Ken that opened my eyes to split tails, blake's hitches, slacktenders, and a host of other ideas that I didn't fully absorb till I had some time on the first few.

Today I climbed on NE Safety Blue, tied in on a VT, but I used a natural crotch and even made a few cuts with a pole saw. I'm like Jimmy in that I will sometimes drag up my tail and double-crotch on it (though I usually carry an extra VT for that purpose), but more often I just use my super-long, KMIII lanyard as my backup. It's double-ended so I can use it like two ends of a rope with a lanyard. I adjust it with a hitch, not a gadget, but the cord is 5mm NE TechCord.

I still see old school practices all the time. I do think new school is much more entrenched generally than when I started, but there are some die-hard holdouts--like someone said, more likely in rural areas.

As for holier-than-thou, I think that started when Cain killed Abel. Someone has always been convinced they were better than everyone else. Like others said here, I have been accused of being too old school by modern climbers and I've been mocked by old-schoolers for all the bells and whistles I use now. My strategy is to work the way I work and let them say what they want.

k
 
I feel very lucky to have come from the old school and progress with all the changes I've seen occur over the last 42 years. Gear, technique, education and awareness. Certainly all for the better.

Still there's a few old schoolers left in my area that have not changed their ways since the early 70's. And I just grimace watching them battle to enter a gnarly tree and do their work the old way. They'll look me in the eye and say,"I don't need all that fancy shat to do my work." Which for the most part they really don't but sometimes I think they're a little too stubborn for their own good.

Truthfully, if it wasn't for the new tricks and gadgets I use now for setting ropes and accessing the tree I probably would be doing something else.
 
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I've heard the term OS defined as "Traditional" and NS as "Modern" These I feel are better terms. One thing that I will say about Traditional is most have a stronger work ethic and are more about overcoming challenges and getting it done with what they have. The modern climbing for us was yes in the early 90's. With our moderen tools and techniques we are MUCH safer and more productive for sure, but you still need the traditional ethic.

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Well put Tod.
 
The guy I work with used to do line clearance for Davey in the 70's, he's a legend.

Runs around with hooks and a 3 strand safety and you can't usually tell him nothin'.

But now he watches me climb washingtonia palms hookless and wonders, what the H#%l?

I learn efficiency and style from him, he gets to laugh at me from the ground.

We have a good time.
 
If '92 is the year, I wonder if treework deaths and injuries per capita have decreased since then, compared to pre '92?
 
My grandfather was a foreman for asplundh for 35 years (not to mention a local ledgend) and was "traditional" all the way. I can remember the first time I saw him climb and cut down a tree and I have been hooked ever since(I was 5)He first let me use a chain saw when I was 10 and I can still remember the safety lessons he pounded into my head. From that point on every time he did a job (retired from asplundh at that time) he wound come pick me up so I could help. I learned alot from him from but the most important thing he taught me was safety.

I have since learned some new (as well as a few safer) methods of doing things, but alot of what he taught me is still very fresh in my mind. I consider my self a modern climber, as I have all the latest gear and gadgets, but alot of the methods I use would be still be considered "traditional"(natural crotch rigging, wraps at the base, etc.)

I guess what Im gettin at is that I think the difference tween the two is definatly more gear oriented. My grandpa always wore a helmet, regardless. He always used two hands on the saw(except in rare instances). He always had atleast one attachment to the tree while climbing, and most importanly, he always used his head.

I think the terms should be "safensmart" vs. "dangerdumb"
 
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I'D SAY 1992 , when did the better than thou start?

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For me it was a case of 'when did thou grow up?'

Here's my snapshot from 92, deadwooding a 150ft Ironbark (wouldn't all fit in I'm afraid). My shorts, single means for attachment, no hardhat, freeclimbed to the tie-in and just got on with it!

Why ruin something so simple?

Took me about another 8-9 years before I started wising up to modern equipment, lost the attitude which helped alot also!

Apart from the odd mishap, for me treework is much easier these days....but if only someone could have gotten through my thick skull years earlier!
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The beginning of my metamorphasis from traditional to progressive climber started in November of 1986. Don Blair did a slide show...pre Powerpoint...about speedlining and rigging things UP!!! using a Hobbs device. That was the first time I heard about moving wood anyway except straight down.
 
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when did the better than thou start?

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in the early 90's when the big push for certs came about. Though as you all know I'm not a big fan
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It's really when tree work started to make it's big improvments. You started seeing clean cut guys, and the old drunk/drug type started to dissapear.
 
I understand that I am more fortunate than most with my start in the industry with Ed Hobbs and his philosohy and approach. At that time, late 60s, all of the modern techniques that are being credited to the 90s, we were using back then. We wouldn't have dreamt of climbing on nonsynthetic rope. We were using braided yachting lines, lightweight nylon saddles with articulating leg straps and shoulder straps to facilitate elaborate work positioning. There was no mystery that spurring a trim was bad practice. Our crews were uniformed and, for the time period, somewhat presentable. Much more so than your average tree worker.

What I noticed most during the change over in the 90s to the high tech knots and wonderful new ropes was a desire to be able to perform all tree work, even removals, with these systems. This started to create a division between those who utilized spurs during removals and those who refused to use spurs no matter what.

I feel a lot was lost at that point. Good spur work is every bit as much a part of tree work as good rope work.

The superior attitudes, I believe, are merely an experience level reached. You may have noticed how tree climbing tends to develop self-esteem/ego? There comes a time in every climbers life when they feel they KNOW. It takes a few more years to realize there is a lot still to learn.

Dave
 
there are different schools breaking off as we speak too. Footlockers v. other acension methods for example. Mechanical devices vs. cords. I think they are all mutually beneficial as long as the trees best interest is in mind.
 
phloem!! that vid had me laughing out loud thanks!!
Guys why can't we integrate all techniques together? Is that not the ideal scenario! I started in '84 on a 5/8 three strand w a snap ,leather saddle etc. I free climbed EVERYTHING! AS i went along i continued to add to the tool box.Aren't we always trying to blend safety and proficiency? What ever techniques make that happen for you as an individual roll with it!!
Example: you have many guitar players. ED Van Halen,Clapton,Stevie ray Vaughn,BB king,Hendrix,and on and on there are many considered great but no two sound alike ?! It is a matter of style. I have seen some great stuff that I love to watch, and I respect it's use but I may not use myself............. not my style! that's ok right?! THoughts
 

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