Ode to the Groundman

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Afterall, soon the MEWPS will make all groundsmen climbers!

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God help us all when that happens.

I really feel very strongly on this issue.

There are people who have a real empathy for treework, they're called climbers. I'm talking about real get the job done production climbers. Without them there would be no such thing as Arboriculture. They have the grit and determination to get up those trees time and time again to earn a living and get the job done in a safe and efficient manner, to hopefully achieve the result the client was looking for.

I realise that the purpose of this thread was to give praise to the unsung groundsmen, yeah thats fine, but lets not get carried away in a river of sentimental crap.

For every 1 good groundsman there are 9 bad ones, who would rather talk about some shite they watched on the Discovery channel the night before when your trying to talk them through the job.
 
Kind of funny this thread cam up. Today I had to get a job done ASAP, he wanted it done while the ground was still frozen and there was snow on the ground. A big mild spell is coming in the next day or so.

Murphy's Law..........yep no guys to help. So my wife said she would help since I was in such a bind. God bless her soul, she tried, even through my mild bits of frustration. I am telling you I would have given anything to hafe a reasonablely experienced groundsman, it makes life soooo much easier. I am sore and tired, and not looking forward to climbing all of tomorrow.

Don't take the groundmen/women for granted, show them a little appreciation, buy them a beer/coffee or give them a simple thank you. In my case, a nice dinner out for the wife, because the job wouldn't have been done if it wasn't for her. Good or bad a climber isn't anything without them!


WP
 
WPArborist,

One of these days I am going to start a thread on working with family members.

Working with family members or close friends who have never done treework is a sacred area of treework.

The normal rules don't apply.

I find my whole attitude changes considerably.

I have done a few small ornamental shrub jobs with my wife and its like all the usual rules go out the window. I go into chill out mode. I suddenly become a normal person, rather than a arb obsessed lunatic.

My dad has helped me on some bigger jobs, hauling logs about all day never once complaining, raking up and working in the rain.

My younger sister was out of work for a few months, came out dragged brush, raked up again never complained or moaned about anything, and when I was getting stressed about jobs and pulling my hair out trying to get everything organised, she'd just tell me to shut the hell up and deal with it.

Family and treework, very strange indeed.
 
I've had my brother, daughter, and nephew work for me. Brother and daughter great, nephew.....sigh...... I've never had a lazier groundsman...Oh well, at least it made him even more committed to getting a degree!
 
GROVER, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? I WOULD LIKE TO MEET YOU, THEN KICK YOUR [censored]. BECAUSE YOU ARE SO FULL OF YOURSELF. BEING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ONLY CHIMBED A COUPLE OF TREES IN MY 16 YEARS OF TREEWORK, I DO CARE WHAT GETS DONE ON THE JOB AT TASK. NOT LIKE A JERK-OFF LIKE YOU "LOOK WHAT I DID". SO TAKE THIS AS A DARE, AND SHOW ME WHAT YOUR MADE OF AND SHOW ME WHAT MAKES A CLIMBER BETTER THEN US "LOWLIFE" GROUND PEOPLE IF YOU DARE!!!!!!
 
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GROVER, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? I WOULD LIKE TO MEET YOU, THEN KICK YOUR [censored]. BECAUSE YOU ARE SO FULL OF YOURSELF. BEING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ONLY CHIMBED A COUPLE OF TREES IN MY 16 YEARS OF TREEWORK, I DO CARE WHAT GETS DONE ON THE JOB AT TASK. NOT LIKE A JERK-OFF LIKE YOU "LOOK WHAT I DID". SO TAKE THIS AS A DARE, AND SHOW ME WHAT YOUR MADE OF AND SHOW ME WHAT MAKES A CLIMBER BETTER THEN US "LOWLIFE" GROUND PEOPLE IF YOU DARE!!!!!!

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Jeez RopeGod, you been shouting about this for 6 years mate, you need to let it go. From LINK

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SO RIGGS, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL ON MY SERIVES? I AGREE SOME PEOPLE DO GET PAID TO GET THE TREE ON THE GROUND AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T.I JUST CAN'T STAND CLIMBERS WHO JUST KEEP GOING AND NOT LET THE GROUND PEOPLE IN TO GET SOME BRUSH.AND WHEN THERE DONE JUST STAND THERE AND SAY LOOK HOW FAST I AM.I WILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY I MADE A VERY BIG MISTAKE WHEN I FIRST STARTED IN TREE WORK. I TOLD TWO CLIMBERS (ALL YOU DO IS MAKE A MESS FOR ME TO CLEAN WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO ALL DAY YOU HAVE IT E-Z!!!)THEN I WAS SET STRIAGHT THE NEXT DAY WHEN WE GOT TO THE JOB I WAS HANDED A SADDLE AND A ROPE , LETS JUST SAY I HAVE CLIMDED 4 TREES IN 11YEARS AND IT WAS 3 TO MANY .I THINK IF YOU DO YOUR JOB (THE ONE YOU GET PAID FOR NOT JUST CLIMBING OR CHIPPING )THEN YOU ARE BOTH JUST AS IMPORTANT.

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Do you think we might be able to get an Ode for Climbers, after all they bust the most stuff!
 
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GROVER, WHERE ARE YOU FROM? I WOULD LIKE TO MEET YOU, THEN KICK YOUR [censored]. BECAUSE YOU ARE SO FULL OF YOURSELF. BEING ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ONLY CHIMBED A COUPLE OF TREES IN MY 16 YEARS OF TREEWORK, I DO CARE WHAT GETS DONE ON THE JOB AT TASK. NOT LIKE A JERK-OFF LIKE YOU "LOOK WHAT I DID". SO TAKE THIS AS A DARE, AND SHOW ME WHAT YOUR MADE OF AND SHOW ME WHAT MAKES A CLIMBER BETTER THEN US "LOWLIFE" GROUND PEOPLE IF YOU DARE!!!!!!

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Ropegod,

As well as climbing, I ground for climbers. But there is a particular breed who like to bomb everything out the tree and create an IDIOT PILE!

In fact I used to just stay back when I was working with a Superfast Shite Climber(S.S.C.) Let the clown create an Idiot Pile, let his rope get jammed up then take ages to untangle it, let him bomb then take hours to clean it up. They eventually have to help with the clean up. Its the only way these idiots learn.

This approach to treework is one of the stupidest easily avoidable problems we all have to deal with.

Now, I'm gonna let you into a little secret ropegod, something many climbers know about but due to the macho nature of our job very rarely admit.

A S.S.C. bombs everything down with total disregard for the guys on the ground.

The reason for this, is that this species of climber actually hates climbing and they want to get out of the tree as quickly as possible.

This climber covers his discomfort and fear of being in the tree with speed and anger or tries to disguise his hatred of climbing with awkward humour and they tend to sniffle a lot(due to endorphines being realised by their body to counteract their fear).

You can tell your working with an S.S.C. when they get all amateur dramatics on ya, screaming and shouting for no good reason like they're in the middle of a bank heist.

They frantically pull the rigging rope back up the tree instead of letting you do it.

Oh yes, they wanted the glory and prestige of being a highly respected climber within their peer group but when it came down to it they just couldn't hack it. But to save face they stubbornly continue to climb cause backing out now at this stage would make them look like they had failed.

If they were sensible they would have realised way back at the start that they didn't have the right temperament fo tree climbing.

They never really learned or had the intelligence or empathy to figure out what treework is about, they just wanted to be a treeclimber, and before they knew it they were taking down trees way beyond their skill level. This manifests itself in the way they bomb everything down like maniacs. They hate being in the tree, its as simple as that.

I bet you've seen this many times, you know what I am talking about right? the unacceptable face of arboriculture is the red faced, angry, flustered, erratic, anxiety ridden face of a superfast shite climber.

I feel sorry for them.
 
Ropegod

I've been thinking for a few days about you and what Grover said.

I reckon there's one huge serious advantage that a good groundy has over a grounded climber.

You aint gonna be the next competitor.

That's right, one of the biggest worries/fears/concerns (call it what you bloody well like) is that loyalty and honesty factor.

Climbers tend to like to knock out a few trees for themselves, on the side, maybe even pinch ya customers. Climbers are opportunists, they think ... "hmmm, I know the boss got $1500 for that tree and I could have had that on the ground in like 3 hours and just got some-one in to chip it. The boss made $800 on that job whilst I got paid $150."

But you aint like that.

Biggest threat you'd be is getting poached by a rogue climber or another company. Boss knows your worth and you'd get paid well, and you know what your capable of what and your worth too. But a climber, well, grass is always greener elsewhere to many of them.
 
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That's right, one of the biggest worries/fears/concerns (call it what you bloody well like) is that loyalty and honesty factor.

Climbers tend to like to knock out a few trees for themselves, on the side, maybe even pinch ya customers. Climbers are opportunists, they think ... "hmmm, I know the boss got $1500 for that tree and I could have had that on the ground in like 3 hours and just got some-one in to chip it. The boss made $800 on that job whilst I got paid $150."


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Ekka,

You've made a good point but remember if you treat your climber with respect and pay him well he will return the favour with trust, loyalty and hard wor

I've worked for guys who have taken advantage of my good will and general decency, they made a colossal amount of money on one job and I did all the climbing while they stood on the ground yapping to the groundies. I get the job finished a day early and they wouldn't pay me the 3 days as agreed they just pay me 2 days!!

Now I charge a relatively large amount per day for climbing.
It makes me happier to work for these guys, I dictate the pay, not them.

As for being a full time employee, there are far too many young guys climbing for shite money, I used to be one of them.

As you get older you realise your being taken advantage of, they are ripping you off.

The worst kind is the Company owner who takes on a large technical removal, but has never actually had the skill or ability to do this kind of work themselves, they just hire in a good climber who gets the job done, meanwhile all the neighbourhood has been watching this removal going on and they assume wrongly it is the owner who is doing this highly specialised job.

The owner gets all the publicity and kudos, thats why so many climbers move on to better pay or start their own companies, they just get sick of not getting payed properly and not getting the credit for the hard work they've done.

What makes matters worse is that the company owner wont even properly acknowledge the skills and efficiency of his good climber because he has never done a job like that, he'll play it down, making it seem average.

If you have a good climber, no matter how friendly you are with them you better pay them what they are worth, or they really will start believing the grass is greener on the otherside.

The fast turnover of climbing staff within the industry is due to poor employers not selfish climbers.
 
I thought this thread was about Groundies?

I've only worked with a few, but I've not had a bad one yet. Two are climbers and one isn't. We call the one that doesn't climb 'The Donk', he's a young guy, like 6'-3" and pushing 275#... strong as an ox, gentle as a lamb.

He never stops watching the climber, always has stuff ready for you, knows his knots cold and loves tree work. He's volunteer firefighter, EMT trained, likes big belt buckles and big hats. When I get down he refuses to let me help with the cleanup. He once took down a piece of deadwood I missed with a bigshot (about a 40' shot), You could not ask for a better ground man.

It's too bad he's not working regularly because he had to take a job tending bar. I don't get to work with him much anymore. I miss The Donk.
 
As with climbers so it is with Groundies. If they're good then pay them what they need to make it worthwhile. Then they wouldn't be taking a bartending job at the expense of tree work. Oh well.....
 
ain't that the truth
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jp
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God bless the groundie...... tech support for all climbers, the right hand man... the head honcho... a demi-god in his own right....oh wait that describes me to a tee!! LOl
 
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As with climbers so it is with Groundies. If they're good then pay them what they need to make it worthwhile. Then they wouldn't be taking a bartending job at the expense of tree work. Oh well.....

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If it was up to me I'd pay him really well, but I'm just a contract climber for that outfit and they aren't doing much business anymore. The only jobs I've done with them lately was me with the owner working the ground... he's a good groundie too but he ain't The Donk.
 
Idiot piles aren't what they used to be. You have a crew on the ground with all kinds of diesel engines purring. Bobcats , Brush Bandits on steroids , log trucks. Being cute don't cut it , get that tree down . I had to take these hundred foot White pines down , three of them . Brush top to bottom . I was being cute , cutting lower limbs , waiting to they cleaned up a few , made some more cuts. The guy paying me said , " I'm falling asleep , just get those trees down . I went to the top , under cutted a few of the bigger ones on the way up , and slammed the whole head so it fell flat and just wiped out all the brush on the way down . Than I knocked ten foot logs right on top of the brush . Never saw a happier bunch of ground guys in my life . Did the next two the same way , and I was done.
As for the family on the ground , had my three brothers , two brothers in laws and my two uncles and my dad for a clearing job on my uncles lot in Jersey . Tempers were hot , it was therapy , " hey Pop . "tell me how you really feel ? "
As for bartending , I 'll pick the stool , I married the bartender.
 
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