Oceans' Tether on ZZ

[moss]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

[ QUOTE ]
putting the zig zig into the same position as found in combo with the RW. Petzl is stating it is safe to run the ZZ on a single line with supplemental friction.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Zig Zig is a much better name for it, what I'm calling it from now on!
-AJ

 

[treeweaver]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

[ QUOTE ]
Petzl states the the ZZ is useable in SRT, with supplemental friction such as a munter hitch below the device, etc...

Section 4.2

http://www.petzl.com/files/all/product-experience/PRO/PE_D22-ZIGZAG-EN.pdf

There's a depiction of a climber blocking down a spar and descending in srt with a munter hitch, putting the zig zig into the same position as found in combo with the RW. Petzl is stating it is safe to run the ZZ on a single line with supplemental friction.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to check a zig zig out, but now they are sold out. Eric do you prefer running on the fly or imori?

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

Photo attached.

I looked at the photo and could not see a problem either until now. I did not look at the Petzl diagram long enough to realize that the munter was going BELOW the ZZ thus not effecting the angle of the zag. I assumed that the munter would be tethered to the same DdRT connection point thus closely replicating the friction and angle as the doubled line. Although I'm not sure that would work as you don't have the ability to free hand the munter to adjust friction. I can see now that because the RW bends the line out to a different angle it pushes the limits of the zig and zag connection.

"Petzl states the the ZZ is useable in SRT, with supplemental friction such as a munter hitch below the device, etc..."

So I guess the challenge is to make sure the required supplemental friction does not interfere with the angle or placement of the zigging and zagging.

Last edit and thought........maybe they want you to buy another zig zag to place on the line

 

[moss]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

If the RW tether is attached to the same attachment point on the ZZ as intended for the DRT standing end wouldn't the angle problem be taken care of?
-AJ

 

[moss]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

Aha, thanks for the clarification Yoyoman, now I understand the where the wear is occurring on the ZZ. Makes sense. I still think the tether angle can be corrected for SRT use to limit the wear problem. Unfortunately I don't have a ZZ to test options, and likely will not be getting one due to the cost.
-AJ

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

[ QUOTE ]
....... I still think the tether angle can be corrected for SRT use to limit the wear problem.
Unfortunately I don't have a ZZ to test options, and likely will not be getting one due to the cost.
-AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
I can see some wheels spinning........pinto pulley......Petzle rack.......prusik on a thimble tethered to the DdRT connection and grow a third hand.........ZigZag version2 with twice the zags and zigs for SRT.........
But I'm right there with you Moss, probably won't end up having one of these in my bucket but I like the concept, besides, I just took my Unicender to the machine shop for some mods I'm pretty excited about.

I do have a question......
When on an SRT line without supplemental friction, does the device lock up and not release or does it slip? I'm thinking slip but can't really tell looking at pictures.

 

[oceans]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

When the climber in Petzl's diagram comes to a stop and releases the Munter, the cam to frame contact is made.

I have also found the the contact exists in DdRT as well.

Dorian, I've found that Tachyon, Fly, and Imori all work very well, and tend the same. The greatest reward of the ZZ is the ease of tending slack, which feels as though there is no friction at all. The Imori feels less fatiguing to me due to the diameter, but it also has the most friction in the RW, so the ZZ cams are very easy to operate, and exhibit great speed control. Lately, when advancing through a redirect, I've popped out the RW slick pin to aid in running slack into the unit before advancing. This also allows me to put the stopper knot against the top cam rather than against the RW. I usually have all 3 lines with me, and I make my choice based on how complex the climb will be, and overall rope length needed.

 

[moss]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

[ QUOTE ]
When the climber in Petzl's diagram comes to a stop and releases the Munter, the cam to frame contact is made.

I have also found the the contact exists in DdRT as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I expected, this will ultimately be a non-issue or Petzl will do a slight redesign in a future version (there is always a future version) to beef up the cam to frame contact point if only for Petzl sanctioned DRT use.
-AJ

 

[treeweaver]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

Thanks for the update Eric. It sounds like Imori runs great on it and a thicker rope might be more suited when first getting to know a mechaninal device. Unfortunately I have so much tacyon in different lenghts to go through before I can justify buying another 24 strand.

 

[oceans]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori

I think that Fly and Tachyon will be very comparable running through the Zig Zag. Their elongation may be the most notable difference.

There are only 2 reasons why I started on Dragonfly:
~ The length of my Dragonfly hank was only 100'...I was crushing storm damaged Cedar after Cedar, and they were all no more than 40' tall. My Tachyon was 200'.
~ I had 2 splices on my Imori (200'), and I wasn't ready to cut an end off.

I ran the Imori as a longer line, and the Dragonfly as a shorter line, just to learn about the characteristics of the varied diameters. I could have used my Tachyon for the taller trees, but it runs so much like DFly that I left it in the bag in favor of the larger diameter Imori.

Since this thread began, I've run it on Fly, DFly, Tachyon, and Imori. It runs so well on all these lines, though Imori gives me the most control and best "hand" for my size & weight. I'll continue to mix it up and use all these lines for various climbs, but probably mostly due to their length.

The Rope Wrench makes any hitch (rope or mechanical) run so much better, that I can't imagine any DB climb line (within the proper diameter range) that this setup wouldn't run well on.

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

If the tether is attached to the hole for ddrt would that solve the zz to frame attachment problem? by controlling the exit angle?

 

[oceans]

If the tether is attached to the hole for ddrt would that solve the zz to frame attachment problem? by controlling the exit angle?

It would, as long as the Wrench is engaged. Best practice would be to manually engage the Wrench following ANY upward movement to ensure it is carrying a period of the climber's weight.

This is actually a habit I formed when flying the ZK-1 and normal hitch before stiff tethers came along. The soft tethers would allow the Wrench to hold the hitch open so you HAD to slide it up and engage every time.

 

[Tico]

Re: Oceans\' Tether on ZZ with Imori
it slips to death

[ QUOTE ]
....... I still think the tether angle can be corrected for SRT use to limit the wear problem.
Unfortunately I don't have a ZZ to test options, and likely will not be getting one due to the cost.
-AJ

[/ QUOTE ]
I can see some wheels spinning........pinto pulley......Petzle rack.......prusik on a thimble tethered to the DdRT connection and grow a third hand.........ZigZag version2 with twice the zags and zigs for SRT.........
But I'm right there with you Moss, probably won't end up having one of these in my bucket but I like the concept, besides, I just took my Unicender to the machine shop for some mods I'm pretty excited about.

I do have a question......
When on an SRT line without supplemental friction, does the device lock up and not release or does it slip? I'm thinking slip but can't really tell looking at pictures.