NO KONG GEAR AT TCC'S!!!!!
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Something like that.
Something like that.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
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Easy , now Boyz I have some Kongs toys on the bottom of my gear bag .. Petzl, CMI ,Black Diamond , DMM and the list goes on .. Just read the label and use some smarts , Climb Safe ...
Later from SO-CAL
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Use what you want to use but after seeing how they handled the broken ring situation I will not be shopping or using kong products. I've experienced first hand their terrible design via kong futura foot adcender, but this takes the cake
[ QUOTE ]
Easy , now Boyz I have some Kongs toys on the bottom of my gear bag .. Petzl, CMI ,Black Diamond , DMM and the list goes on .. Just read the label and use some smarts , Climb Safe ...
Later from SO-CAL
[/ QUOTE ]
Use what you want to use but after seeing how they handled the broken ring situation I will not be shopping or using kong products. I've experienced first hand their terrible design via kong futura foot adcender, but this takes the cake
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
I have to agree with Tom on this one, none of the rings on my petzel are marked. Does that mean I can't use it? I made fc out of 50 kn steel rings that are not marked, so I couldn't use that either. None of my ropes are labled, but there ok? I think we can go to far banning things, it's your life if you feel comfortable with a piece of gear than you should us it.
I have to agree with Tom on this one, none of the rings on my petzel are marked. Does that mean I can't use it? I made fc out of 50 kn steel rings that are not marked, so I couldn't use that either. None of my ropes are labled, but there ok? I think we can go to far banning things, it's your life if you feel comfortable with a piece of gear than you should us it.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
It's not the matter of no markings that's really a big deal here, the big deal here is that, regardless of markings, if your POS kong gear breaks at a competition then kong will not pay any money and blame YOU the user, regardless of the situation or circumstances in which the equipment failed.
It's not the matter of no markings that's really a big deal here, the big deal here is that, regardless of markings, if your POS kong gear breaks at a competition then kong will not pay any money and blame YOU the user, regardless of the situation or circumstances in which the equipment failed.
KentuckySawyer
Participating member
- Location
- Louisville
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
KS,
There are many examples of unmarked gear allowed into comps unfortunately.
I agree...documentation is a must though.
In the case of the SS rings, it wouldn't be practical to mark them but I can provide documentation, including a sales receipt if I knew that it was needed on comp day.
What about the unmarked rings on Buckingham FC's as an example. We have to take B'ham's word that they are proper and have been proof tested even though they aren't marked.
Do splices need to be labeled? What if a person splices their own ropes? If I ever have splicing questions at a comp I can usually find someone there to help me out. If not, a phone picture and text message to one of the splicing gurus can usually solve the issue quickly.
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Points taken, Tom. Namely regarding the Buck rings. DMM's older rings were the same way. This is a point of inconsistency, and I think Buckingham should follow suite with other manufacturers as a gesture of good faith, but that withstanding I know they're rings are quality. Those and the DMM rings have a distinct look that aids in identifying them.
Seems to me that if Kong says their gear isn't intended (i.e. not good enough for) a TCC, them the event organizers shouldn't assume the liability of allowing Kong gear.
[ QUOTE ]
KS,
There are many examples of unmarked gear allowed into comps unfortunately.
I agree...documentation is a must though.
In the case of the SS rings, it wouldn't be practical to mark them but I can provide documentation, including a sales receipt if I knew that it was needed on comp day.
What about the unmarked rings on Buckingham FC's as an example. We have to take B'ham's word that they are proper and have been proof tested even though they aren't marked.
Do splices need to be labeled? What if a person splices their own ropes? If I ever have splicing questions at a comp I can usually find someone there to help me out. If not, a phone picture and text message to one of the splicing gurus can usually solve the issue quickly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Points taken, Tom. Namely regarding the Buck rings. DMM's older rings were the same way. This is a point of inconsistency, and I think Buckingham should follow suite with other manufacturers as a gesture of good faith, but that withstanding I know they're rings are quality. Those and the DMM rings have a distinct look that aids in identifying them.
Seems to me that if Kong says their gear isn't intended (i.e. not good enough for) a TCC, them the event organizers shouldn't assume the liability of allowing Kong gear.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
I didn't want to make it sound like I was questioning the integrity of B'ham. I used their rings as an example because most climbers are familiar with them and trust the company to have a QC program.
I didn't want to make it sound like I was questioning the integrity of B'ham. I used their rings as an example because most climbers are familiar with them and trust the company to have a QC program.
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
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For what it is worth: I talked to Buckingham last year about their friction saver rings. They told me the reason they don't mark them is because they don't want to introduce a potential stress or wear point in the ring.
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Sounds like a little BS to me...would you accept that excuse on a carabiner?
Besides, we went over the argument for marking modular life support equipment in the original post discussing the ring failure incident.
If it is not marked, it should not be allowable in a competition.
[ QUOTE ]
For what it is worth: I talked to Buckingham last year about their friction saver rings. They told me the reason they don't mark them is because they don't want to introduce a potential stress or wear point in the ring.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a little BS to me...would you accept that excuse on a carabiner?
Besides, we went over the argument for marking modular life support equipment in the original post discussing the ring failure incident.
If it is not marked, it should not be allowable in a competition.
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
The rings on the fs shouldn't need to be marked as the friction saver itself is marked. These rings are not distributed individually, but as a unit that is entirely rated. Same as the dees and rings on your saddle. The entire saddle is tested and rated. Read the literature that comes with it. Now, if you buy a ring, a carabiner, a clevis, or a delta link that is going to be used for life support, that sucker had better be labled as having been tested and rated. I don't think that a ban in necessary, common sense is. I do think it is necessary for all arborist supply distributers to stop carrying gear *cough-KONG-cough* that isn't worth its weight in the brown ink from the above listed brown list. If a company won't stand by its product and won't suck it up when they screw up, they shouldn't be a company. These are the kind of fiascoes that a college student would learn about in a begining Public Relations course (I sure did). It's far better for the company to just take the blame and fix the issue rather than hiding and hoping it will go away.
The rings on the fs shouldn't need to be marked as the friction saver itself is marked. These rings are not distributed individually, but as a unit that is entirely rated. Same as the dees and rings on your saddle. The entire saddle is tested and rated. Read the literature that comes with it. Now, if you buy a ring, a carabiner, a clevis, or a delta link that is going to be used for life support, that sucker had better be labled as having been tested and rated. I don't think that a ban in necessary, common sense is. I do think it is necessary for all arborist supply distributers to stop carrying gear *cough-KONG-cough* that isn't worth its weight in the brown ink from the above listed brown list. If a company won't stand by its product and won't suck it up when they screw up, they shouldn't be a company. These are the kind of fiascoes that a college student would learn about in a begining Public Relations course (I sure did). It's far better for the company to just take the blame and fix the issue rather than hiding and hoping it will go away.
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
I don't see the difference. If you buy a rope, you trust that the ropes braking strength is whats is stated. I dont need the rope marked to know that. The same gos for aq ring, I have a unmarked 50kn ring that I trust more than any marked 25kn rings.
I don't see the difference. If you buy a rope, you trust that the ropes braking strength is whats is stated. I dont need the rope marked to know that. The same gos for aq ring, I have a unmarked 50kn ring that I trust more than any marked 25kn rings.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
ropes are marked by design, you can look at a rope and know right off whats the make and model. Rings and things can easily be imitations. But the whole harness situation is wierd because there are a lot of components and none of them are marked and they also can easily be replaced with other unmarked pieces. I think 100% marking is good but it would be unpractical at the moment because so much is unmarked on all the harnesses that we all use. what about clevises?
ropes are marked by design, you can look at a rope and know right off whats the make and model. Rings and things can easily be imitations. But the whole harness situation is wierd because there are a lot of components and none of them are marked and they also can easily be replaced with other unmarked pieces. I think 100% marking is good but it would be unpractical at the moment because so much is unmarked on all the harnesses that we all use. what about clevises?
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Personally, I think ALL modular gear, including a ring on a bridge, should be rated and labeled.
Personally, I think ALL modular gear, including a ring on a bridge, should be rated and labeled.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[...]
Seems to me that if Kong says their gear isn't intended (i.e. not good enough for) a TCC, then the event organizers shouldn't assume the liability of allowing Kong gear.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's it, that's the perfect way to say it right there.
[ QUOTE ]
[...]
Seems to me that if Kong says their gear isn't intended (i.e. not good enough for) a TCC, then the event organizers shouldn't assume the liability of allowing Kong gear.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's it, that's the perfect way to say it right there.
- Location
- Springfield MO
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Jay was SO fortunate when that happened but it's unfortunate that some corporate lawyer advises "If you pay anything, you'll admit fault but I can get you out of this. You simply say that he was using the ring in a competition and that's not it's intended use. Do you have documentation stating that this ring is for use in competition?" Just venting...
Jay was SO fortunate when that happened but it's unfortunate that some corporate lawyer advises "If you pay anything, you'll admit fault but I can get you out of this. You simply say that he was using the ring in a competition and that's not it's intended use. Do you have documentation stating that this ring is for use in competition?" Just venting...
- Location
- Chattanooga, TN
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
It's really pretty simple guys, if you don't want to use the gear... DON'T! Why complain and whine about it? There are plenty of other companies out there that manufacture gear that would love to have your guys' business.
It's really pretty simple guys, if you don't want to use the gear... DON'T! Why complain and whine about it? There are plenty of other companies out there that manufacture gear that would love to have your guys' business.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Complain and whine? Really?
You're joking right?
Yea. You're joking.
Haha. Ha. Ha
You are joking right?
How's this for plain and simple. Kong makes inferior products and doesn't belong on my shower curtin or womens hand bag (yes, I use a womens hand bag. I say it's European, but deep down, I know exactly what it is and you know what else? I look damn good with it too)
How's this. Do some reading, catch up on what's going on then come back to me and tell me that we are complaining.
If kong refuses to support our industry then we should refuse to support their company. If Kong refuses to back their product, then we should do the same.
Complain and whine? Really?
You're joking right?
Yea. You're joking.
Haha. Ha. Ha
You are joking right?
How's this for plain and simple. Kong makes inferior products and doesn't belong on my shower curtin or womens hand bag (yes, I use a womens hand bag. I say it's European, but deep down, I know exactly what it is and you know what else? I look damn good with it too)
How's this. Do some reading, catch up on what's going on then come back to me and tell me that we are complaining.
If kong refuses to support our industry then we should refuse to support their company. If Kong refuses to back their product, then we should do the same.
- Location
- Chattanooga, TN
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
I speak from only my personal experience: The Kong products in my bag have never failed me. In fact the only product that has ever failed me was a misused product, no matter what the brand. End of story.
I speak from only my personal experience: The Kong products in my bag have never failed me. In fact the only product that has ever failed me was a misused product, no matter what the brand. End of story.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Your logic doesnt make sense, maybe as an individual but that's just not how I think. I used to main line heroin. I didn't get addicted but that doesn't mean I wont say that it's not extremely harmful and destructive
Your logic doesnt make sense, maybe as an individual but that's just not how I think. I used to main line heroin. I didn't get addicted but that doesn't mean I wont say that it's not extremely harmful and destructive
- Location
- Chattanooga, TN
Re: NO KONG GEAR AT TCC\'S!!!!!
Wow. You're comparing mainlining heorion to Kong products and my logic doesn't make sense? No worries though man really. I just don't agree with a ban. To say that one person doesn't want to use a particular brand is fine. But to force all people from using them is ridiculous. Thats all.
Wow. You're comparing mainlining heorion to Kong products and my logic doesn't make sense? No worries though man really. I just don't agree with a ban. To say that one person doesn't want to use a particular brand is fine. But to force all people from using them is ridiculous. Thats all.
