Fairfield
Participating member
- Location
- Bucks County pa USA
tuttle, what kind of line are you climbing static or dynamic? SRT or DbRT?
New toothed cam ascenders-less rope damage
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
Yes, dont be heavy handed, I did mine in 4 stages, and smoothed them each time.
Its a matter of preferance.
Its not all or nothing
Its a matter of preferance.
Its not all or nothing
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
[ QUOTE ]
tuttle, what kind of line are you climbing static or dynamic? SRT or DbRT?
[/ QUOTE ]
Both SRT and Ddrt, my lines are a 9.2mm static, 10.5mm static technora featherlight rope and a standard 11mm static for long ascents.
tuttle, what kind of line are you climbing static or dynamic? SRT or DbRT?
[/ QUOTE ]
Both SRT and Ddrt, my lines are a 9.2mm static, 10.5mm static technora featherlight rope
and a standard 11mm static for long ascents.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
I tried it with a Pantin. You have to be careful, if you grind just a little too much off they will start to slip. I did not feel like it was an improvement as the grip became less reliable, especially in the cold and wet stuff.
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
I tried it with a Pantin. You have to be careful, if you grind just a little too much off they will start to slip. I did not feel like it was an improvement as the grip became less reliable, especially in the cold and wet stuff.
David
[/ QUOTE ]
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
[/ QUOTE ]
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is yours smooth? take a picture
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is yours smooth? take a picture
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
I should also say that I did it on a small bench grinder, not a hand grinder....if there is any confusion.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is yours smooth? take a picture
[/ QUOTE ]
Used a Dremel on mine.
Did it after I got my CMI foot ascender a while back and knew there was something better than those really sharp pointed teeth.
I would do it again but much less and very little at a time.
Put me on the "little too much list", it slips now on my kern.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is yours smooth? take a picture
[/ QUOTE ]
Used a Dremel on mine.
Did it after I got my CMI foot ascender a while back and knew there was something better than those really sharp pointed teeth.
I would do it again but much less and very little at a time.
Attachments
Fairfield
Participating member
- Location
- Bucks County pa USA
It is strange to hear that your cam teeth was doing that much damage to your static line that you needed to shave the teeth down.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
It is strange to hear that your cam teeth was doing that much damage to your static line that you needed to shave the teeth down.
[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not really it at all. I can only speak for myself but for the FOOT ascender it was just me not being able to leave it "well enough" alone. I probably got a few more picks on a double braid with the Petzl than with the CMI but I don't think that it was a problem.
What I am encouraged to learn is that there are life support ascenders that will be more static rope friendly.
What I do find a little surprising is that these have been around for a while (not sure how long) but yet not sold at our normal supply points?
It is strange to hear that your cam teeth was doing that much damage to your static line that you needed to shave the teeth down.
[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not really it at all. I can only speak for myself but for the FOOT ascender it was just me not being able to leave it "well enough" alone. I probably got a few more picks on a double braid with the Petzl than with the CMI but I don't think that it was a problem.
What I am encouraged to learn is that there are life support ascenders that will be more static rope friendly.
What I do find a little surprising is that these have been around for a while (not sure how long) but yet not sold at our normal supply points?
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
What I do find a little surprising is that these have been around for a while (not sure how long) but yet not sold at our normal supply points?
[/ QUOTE ]
Heightec twist
What I do find a little surprising is that these have been around for a while (not sure how long) but yet not sold at our normal supply points?
[/ QUOTE ]
Heightec twist
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Good news. I just heard back from PMI Ropes this week, who seems to be the distributor for Heightec ascenders here in the US.
Heightec Ascenders can be safely used on ALL types of rope construction without damage from picking of the cam/teeth on the cover of the rope.
This is a HUGE improvement over the Petzl designs. Now we have a safe chose to use with ropes such as Tachyon when we are using SRT.
Just remember that these tools are still not designed as "Fall Arresters."
Heightec Ascenders can be safely used on ALL types of rope construction without damage from picking of the cam/teeth on the cover of the rope.
This is a HUGE improvement over the Petzl designs. Now we have a safe chose to use with ropes such as Tachyon when we are using SRT.
Just remember that these tools are still not designed as "Fall Arresters."
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
Heightec Ascenders can be safely used on ALL types of rope construction without damage from picking of the cam/teeth on the cover of the rope.
[/ QUOTE ]
What happens when a Heightec ascender cam is shock loaded on a 24-strand arborist rope? Has there been any testing? To me picking is more of a potential nuisance than a safety issue.
Would be good to see comparisons of how the different cam designs effect 24-strand rope during heavy dynamic loading.
-AJ
Heightec Ascenders can be safely used on ALL types of rope construction without damage from picking of the cam/teeth on the cover of the rope.
[/ QUOTE ]
What happens when a Heightec ascender cam is shock loaded on a 24-strand arborist rope? Has there been any testing? To me picking is more of a potential nuisance than a safety issue.
Would be good to see comparisons of how the different cam designs effect 24-strand rope during heavy dynamic loading.
-AJ
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Moss, testing has been done, but unfortunately I have it at my office computer. I will try to get the results and post them next week sometime.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
Moss, testing has been done, but unfortunately I have it at my office computer. I will try to get the results and post them next week sometime.
[/ QUOTE ]
I remember hearing something in the past about the Petzl cam severing a 24-strand but never saw any data. Would be good to see what the CMI and Heightec cams do.
Thanks!
Moss, testing has been done, but unfortunately I have it at my office computer. I will try to get the results and post them next week sometime.
[/ QUOTE ]
I remember hearing something in the past about the Petzl cam severing a 24-strand but never saw any data. Would be good to see what the CMI and Heightec cams do.
Thanks!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The fear that toothed ascenders will shear or badly damage arborist's climbing rope is over-rated. Not to be ignored though!
Since we climb in a work-positioning mode and keep the slack out of our lines we should 'never' fall far enough to generate rope-damaging loads.
Of course a PSP could break, a rope could snag on an unknown/seen redirect or many other odd scenarios. In these cases a high load might be generated.
After all of the 'shredded rope' chatter that's been going on for years I have yet to hear of any tree climber experiencing rope damage.
The exception is when some knuckleheads use a handled cammed ascender to attach a piggyback mechanical advantage system to a haul line. DUH!!! Pilot error not gear failure!
Since we climb in a work-positioning mode and keep the slack out of our lines we should 'never' fall far enough to generate rope-damaging loads.
Of course a PSP could break, a rope could snag on an unknown/seen redirect or many other odd scenarios. In these cases a high load might be generated.
After all of the 'shredded rope' chatter that's been going on for years I have yet to hear of any tree climber experiencing rope damage.
The exception is when some knuckleheads use a handled cammed ascender to attach a piggyback mechanical advantage system to a haul line. DUH!!! Pilot error not gear failure!
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
After all of the 'shredded rope' chatter that's been going on for years I have yet to hear of any tree climber experiencing rope damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep.
After all of the 'shredded rope' chatter that's been going on for years I have yet to hear of any tree climber experiencing rope damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
The fear that toothed ascenders will shear or badly damage arborist's climbing rope is over-rated. Not to be ignored though!
.....we should 'never' fall far enough to generate rope-damaging loads.
......
[/ QUOTE ]
So agree! ...and a fall, enough to hurt oneself on a static rope, may be just as damaging or deathly as hitting the ground.
I would like to see any test results also but just looking at the ascender tells me that for our ropes, IT HAS TO BE BETTER. (for picking, shredding, cutting or anything else)
Can anyone give me a good reason for the sharp, jagged points? The only thing I can think of is that it is good to prevent the ascender from slipping on small diameter, tight jacketed ropes, maybe with a coat of ice on them......not likely in my tree.
The fear that toothed ascenders will shear or badly damage arborist's climbing rope is over-rated. Not to be ignored though!
.....we should 'never' fall far enough to generate rope-damaging loads.
......
[/ QUOTE ]
So agree! ...and a fall, enough to hurt oneself on a static rope, may be just as damaging or deathly as hitting the ground.
I would like to see any test results also but just looking at the ascender tells me that for our ropes, IT HAS TO BE BETTER. (for picking, shredding, cutting or anything else)
Can anyone give me a good reason for the sharp, jagged points? The only thing I can think of is that it is good to prevent the ascender from slipping on small diameter, tight jacketed ropes, maybe with a coat of ice on them......not likely in my tree.
- Location
- Victoria, BC, CAD
Reducing or eliminating the teeth is going to have a profound impact on overall performance. The DIY modification of hardware I am not a fan of in the least.
The response to the whole toothed debate is very throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sloppy climbing habits that create exposures to fall factors on the wrong gear is something we need to address with training, not prohibition.
Why are there teeth at all? Instant engagement, total efficiency on energy input. Compare a Croll to a Rocker and although the difference is incremental, it is very much noticeable. That might not be enough to be a factor for you, and if so, great.
The response to the whole toothed debate is very throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sloppy climbing habits that create exposures to fall factors on the wrong gear is something we need to address with training, not prohibition.
Why are there teeth at all? Instant engagement, total efficiency on energy input. Compare a Croll to a Rocker and although the difference is incremental, it is very much noticeable. That might not be enough to be a factor for you, and if so, great.
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
I think petzl are covering thier HSE with the teeth.
As you have stated 'instant engagement'.
I only ground mine off for use as a foot ascender with a bungee, so its only a little required safety thing.
But for that use its cool because it does the job and saves the rope, plus easier to remove etc.
As you have stated 'instant engagement'.
I only ground mine off for use as a foot ascender with a bungee, so its only a little required safety thing.
But for that use its cool because it does the job and saves the rope, plus easier to remove etc.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Over the years I've used lots of ascenders. Some toothed some with smooth cams and some, like the Rocker, no teeth.
The ONLY rope damage that I've ever experienced was using the Tibloc on KMIII for a couple of days. After using it for two days it looked like I'd used the rope for a welcome mat while wearing my crampons!
If you're picking your rope using toothed ascenders more than likely you're taking them off the rope incorrectly. When the thumb lock for the cam is pulled push up on the cam while taking it off the rope. Make a sort of up and back sweeping movement. Too often I see climbers open the cam and pull straight out like you'd take a book off the shelf. Doing that leaves some of the teeth in the rope which leads to picking.
The ONLY rope damage that I've ever experienced was using the Tibloc on KMIII for a couple of days. After using it for two days it looked like I'd used the rope for a welcome mat while wearing my crampons!
If you're picking your rope using toothed ascenders more than likely you're taking them off the rope incorrectly. When the thumb lock for the cam is pulled push up on the cam while taking it off the rope. Make a sort of up and back sweeping movement. Too often I see climbers open the cam and pull straight out like you'd take a book off the shelf. Doing that leaves some of the teeth in the rope which leads to picking.
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
-
KBNest -Midline Attachable SRS Canopy Anchor.
- Started by TreeSteward
- Replies: 6
-
-
-
