[New-to-me saw] Have tuned carb and everything's great- *except* it takes FOREVER for chain to slow-down to idle now!

eyehearttrees

eyehearttrees

Not a new Member
Location
Tampa-Area
ANY thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I have til business-hours today for my 1-day cash-back return of this saw (then it becomes store-credit :/ )

I'm happy to spend forever tinkering with a carb (well, not happy but accepting!), but my fear is that a "delayed chain slow-down" could be something else IE a sticky pawl in the clutch or maybe warpage of the clutch-drum...can't tell if it's just "it's an older Echo 330t so you should expect to have to fight that carb", or if it's something else (in which case I'm racing back to return it!)

Everything "feels" ok, ie the 3 clutch-pawl-springs move, the clutch&clutch-drum feel good together, but there's just such a pronouncedly-long delay for the chain to stop when I pull out of a cut (am unable to discern whether it's the engine revving-down slower, or the chain being pulled more than it should ie something in the crank/etc parts, but "the feel"/instinct is that it's the engine revving-down to Idle way faster than it should..)

Thanks a TON for any advice on this one!!!
 
eyehearttrees said:
ANY thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I have til business-hours today for my 1-day cash-back return of this saw (then it becomes store-credit :/ )

I'm happy to spend forever tinkering with a carb (well, not happy but accepting!), but my fear is that a "delayed chain slow-down" could be something else IE a sticky pawl in the clutch or maybe warpage of the clutch-drum...can't tell if it's just "it's an older Echo 330t so you should expect to have to fight that carb", or if it's something else (in which case I'm racing back to return it!)

Everything "feels" ok, ie the 3 clutch-pawl-springs move, the clutch&clutch-drum feel good together, but there's just such a pronouncedly-long delay for the chain to stop when I pull out of a cut (am unable to discern whether it's the engine revving-down slower, or the chain being pulled more than it should ie something in the crank/etc parts, but "the feel"/instinct is that it's the engine revving-down to Idle way faster than it should..)

Thanks a TON for any advice on this one!!!
Click to expand...
Your mix is off.
These echo carbs can be super sensitive to adjustments.
Try backing out your H a 16th of a turn at a time and give it a couple revs for it to set in after each adjustment.
If you go beyond 1/4 turn then go back to your starting point and try the reverse.
 
If the idle adjustment doesn't do the trick, then ...
I had a problem like that one time on a Stihl 170. The needle bearing was worn to start and spinning very easily so I packed some grease in it to slow it down. Then I also had stuff gummed up in the drum, so I cleaned it out good. It got better, but still not right. Then I figured out the oiler wire was slipping out it's notch and riding under edge of drum for much of the cycle causing drum to cock slightly and engage with clutch when it shouldn't ( because of worn bearing). Rather than replace bearing, I bent wire slightly to keep it engaged and problem went away. Just something to check.

Also solved the oiling problem that was about to smoke a bar.
 
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I'm thinking he means to say that his saw is still revving (or racing) at a high rpm after releasing the throttle for a few seconds before slowly getting back to idle.
That would be caused by the carb mix being off.
 
Returned it, I had a 1-day cash-back window and, 2hrs left, was holding a 330t that I LOVED but:
- its oiler isn't clutch-driven so I'd have to climb with rags to prevent my harness from sopping-up ounces of oil, I could live with this but not with:
- its "slow deceleration" wasn't affected by any carb-adjustments in fact the phenomena was very consistent regardless of tunes (ie I could fatten/thin L, or increase/decrease Idle, to the point it was hardly performing) and the "lingering throttling after letting go of trigger" effect was equally present when I had it tuned perfectly or tuned-like-crap... I googled it for a while and would put my money on it being either sticky throttle cable linkage or, even worse, an air-leak somewhere....this + always-on oiler were deal-breakers, especially once I found a hairline crack on bottom of plastic shell IE it took a good hit which just upps the odds that the crankcase, or block//carb connection boot, is taking-in air...I'm all for a big daunting project but already have 2 in-process now and not going to buy something to fix it!

Here's where I reallllly fucked-up though....embarrassing/am ashamed I did it, haven't done something so impulsive in ages.... I return the saw / got my $160 refund and said "I'm gonna add 200 and go get a new saw now, instead of waiting on my bigger climb-saw to die (which was original plan, wait for 33cc/16" Tanaka to die and then get $350 Echo 355t) Impulse-purchase all the way - but while I'd decided on $350 for the 355t many many weeks (maybe a couple months!) ago, Home Depots don't carry them in brick&mortars, online-only....Instead of going-home and ordering a $350 355t from H.Depot .com, I thought "Stihl's 2nd-most-powerful, the 194t, is also $350 and Ace Hardware has one right now (getting it in-hand sooner was of ZERO value other than childish "xmas toy" thinking/impulsivity), I'd always thought of Stihl as "solid equipment, but sold for ~2X what it should be" and I rationalized there's *gotta* be something beyond power-to-weight ratios that'd make someone choose a Stihl unit over a comparable power//weight model from another brand- I am experienced w/ Husq products and the increased quality, while perhaps not worth their surcharges, the quality is just obvious -- but this 194t, just driving it home all I could think was "this is the flimsiest/cheapest saw-handle I've ever held", I mean of my 3 climb saws the other 2 are "chinese clone saws" and I'd bet good $$ allllll day that these two "botttom-tier" saws could take harder hits before anything broke, this 194 feels like I could drop it 6" onto pavement and be confident *something* would break..

So by mid-evening yesterday I'd decided I'd bring it back 1st-thing today, I woke & went to Ace....no dice, they'd only take it back if I let them gouge me $120 "re-stock fee" (35% fee), I mean jeebus they sold me the unit that's on the display wall (that's their system, box-->wall-->customer, was pissed my 'new' unit was something others had held/prodded at before I got it so, as a bare-minimum good news, they did give me a new one (assembled then&there in-store) so at least my $350 194t is genuinely new now!

I put it on craigslist for $300, would pay $400 for the 355 so if I could recoup $300 I will but am doubting that'll happen, if nobody inquires on it today I'll call it mine/strip stickers/pierce that muffler and finally get to give a Stihl unit a good, genuine chance- am expecting that'll just confirm that it's solid but wayyy over-priced gear...hope not to find it's wayyyy over-priced, crappy-quality gear!! Never understood how to accurately use the term "Pro saw", Stihl's site gave me the impresssion they're calling it a Pro saw, will see how this guy performs I guess!!
~~~~~

@Tom Dunlap -

To be clear I understand your point, you're saying "turn-distance here about 2X the side-to-side diameter of the L(or H) screw? Presumably this is because the width of the H & L screws is the factor determining how-much-more fuel is allowed in for any given degree-of-rotation of the screw?

Thanks for the reply Tom!!! Hope life's treating you well man :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Birdyman88 said:
If the idle adjustment doesn't do the trick, then ...
I had a problem like that one time on a Stihl 170. The needle bearing was worn to start and spinning very easily so I packed some grease in it to slow it down. Then I also had stuff gummed up in the drum, so I cleaned it out good. It got better, but still not right. Then I figured out the oiler wire was slipping out it's notch and riding under edge of drum for much of the cycle causing drum to cock slightly and engage with clutch when it shouldn't ( because of worn bearing). Rather than replace bearing, I bent wire slightly to keep it engaged and problem went away. Just something to check.

Also solved the oiling problem that was about to smoke a bar.
Click to expand...

Yeah I probably spent an hour (cumulatively) with H/L/Idle, it was not correctable via carb and after googling my $$ is on a leak allowing air in somewhere and I don't have the inclination or skill to do a conclusive leak-test so had to write it off :/ Will hopefully enjoy this new 194t for a while but certainly still getting a 355 at some point, at least I'll be able to speak Re Stihl in a truly informed manner once I've gotten both a $350 194t and a $350 355t, am already quite sure I know
 
eyehearttrees said:
Returned it, I had a 1-day cash-back window and, 2hrs left, was holding a 330t that I LOVED but:
- its oiler isn't clutch-driven so I'd have to climb with rags to prevent my harness from sopping-up ounces of oil, I could live with this but not with:
- its "slow deceleration" wasn't affected by any carb-adjustments in fact the phenomena was very consistent regardless of tunes (ie I could fatten/thin L, or increase/decrease Idle, to the point it was hardly performing) and the "lingering throttling after letting go of trigger" effect was equally present when I had it tuned perfectly or tuned-like-crap... I googled it for a while and would put my money on it being either sticky throttle cable linkage or, even worse, an air-leak somewhere....this + always-on oiler were deal-breakers, especially once I found a hairline crack on bottom of plastic shell IE it took a good hit which just upps the odds that the crankcase, or block//carb connection boot, is taking-in air...I'm all for a big daunting project but already have 2 in-process now and not going to buy something to fix it!

Here's where I reallllly fucked-up though....embarrassing/am ashamed I did it, haven't done something so impulsive in ages.... I return the saw / got my $160 refund and said "I'm gonna add 200 and go get a new saw now, instead of waiting on my bigger climb-saw to die (which was original plan, wait for 33cc/16" Tanaka to die and then get $350 Echo 355t) Impulse-purchase all the way - but while I'd decided on $350 for the 355t many many weeks (maybe a couple months!) ago, Home Depots don't carry them in brick&mortars, online-only....Instead of going-home and ordering a $350 355t from H.Depot .com, I thought "Stihl's 2nd-most-powerful, the 194t, is also $350 and Ace Hardware has one right now (getting it in-hand sooner was of ZERO value other than childish "xmas toy" thinking/impulsivity), I'd always thought of Stihl as "solid equipment, but sold for ~2X what it should be" and I rationalized there's *gotta* be something beyond power-to-weight ratios that'd make someone choose a Stihl unit over a comparable power//weight model from another brand- I am experienced w/ Husq products and the increased quality, while perhaps not worth their surcharges, the quality is just obvious -- but this 194t, just driving it home all I could think was "this is the flimsiest/cheapest saw-handle I've ever held", I mean of my 3 climb saws the other 2 are "chinese clone saws" and I'd bet good $$ allllll day that these two "botttom-tier" saws could take harder hits before anything broke, this 194 feels like I could drop it 6" onto pavement and be confident *something* would break..

So by mid-evening yesterday I'd decided I'd bring it back 1st-thing today, I woke & went to Ace....no dice, they'd only take it back if I let them gouge me $120 "re-stock fee" (35% fee), I mean jeebus they sold me the unit that's on the display wall (that's their system, box-->wall-->customer, was pissed my 'new' unit was something others had held/prodded at before I got it so, as a bare-minimum good news, they did give me a new one (assembled then&there in-store) so at least my $350 194t is genuinely new now!

I put it on craigslist for $300, would pay $400 for the 355 so if I could recoup $300 I will but am doubting that'll happen, if nobody inquires on it today I'll call it mine/strip stickers/pierce that muffler and finally get to give a Stihl unit a good, genuine chance- am expecting that'll just confirm that it's solid but wayyy over-priced gear...hope not to find it's wayyyy over-priced, crappy-quality gear!! Never understood how to accurately use the term "Pro saw", Stihl's site gave me the impresssion they're calling it a Pro saw, will see how this guy performs I guess!!
~~~~~

@Tom Dunlap -

To be clear I understand your point, you're saying "turn-distance here about 2X the side-to-side diameter of the L(or H) screw? Presumably this is because the width of the H & L screws is the factor determining how-much-more fuel is allowed in for any given degree-of-rotation of the screw?

Thanks for the reply Tom!!! Hope life's treating you well man :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Yeah I probably spent an hour (cumulatively) with H/L/Idle, it was not correctable via carb and after googling my $$ is on a leak allowing air in somewhere and I don't have the inclination or skill to do a conclusive leak-test so had to write it off :/ Will hopefully enjoy this new 194t for a while but certainly still getting a 355 at some point, at least I'll be able to speak Re Stihl in a truly informed manner once I've gotten both a $350 194t and a $350 355t, am already quite sure I know
Click to expand...
Sounds like you blew a whole bunch of time, energy, and money. Not to mention likely annoying the crap out of the dealership. I’d much rather spend x2 or more just buying the right saw and being done with it
 
evo said:
Sounds like you blew a whole bunch of time, energy, and money. Not to mention likely annoying the crap out of the dealership. I’d much rather spend x2 or more just buying the right saw and being done with it
Click to expand...
I definitely did, and felt like shit about it, but not shitty-enough not to swap them if able to do so (heh, if it were the other way around, Echo lets you use gear for 1wk and return no-questions, I only got to return my 194t because I was inquiring about warranty-transfer - intending to dump the 194t for a 50-75$ loss and get the 355t - and a Stihl rep reached-out via phone, asked WTH I was asking about transfers for on a new product, and said "I'll call you right back" - called back and said the store would take-back the un-used, just-purchased unit w/o charging $135 "re-stock" to dissuade people) Was very happy w/ how Stihl handled it and do hope to find a stihl something that I can get thinking "this is the best widget of this type for the $$", who knows.

Do feel bad - to the degree some employees had to re-package something / enter inventory#'s while being paid to do so, would certainly not go back and trade my 355t for that 194t to save them&myself a little hassle :)

FWIW the 355t is insane, only have about 5hr run-time on him so far but total beast, have done some basic mods and have some kinda crazy ideas but have held-back, am actually expecting to see my Echo rep today and run the ideas by him (warranty-ending ideas, lol....whatever, after I removed the limiters & muff-restricter I consider it warranty-void, am not of the mindset "keep the limiter caps in good-condition so you can replace them/lie about tinkering", if I break it I'll have it fixed -- am so damn lucky to have found this place/shop the guy is so sharp and has such a thorough inventory :D

[note- The 355t gets HOT if you're just repeatedly burying a 16", it's best for in-tree not on-ground repeatedly bucking a stump ;D I know...top handles aren't for the ground anyway....but just for posterity want to mention it's a major 'fault' w/ the unit it will get so hot that the gas is weak & carb needs opening just to stay alive, it's a powerful machine but meant for sprinting not 5k's yknow!]
 
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