New to bidding work with crane rental. Curious about your thoughts....

[OasisTree]

Using the 250/hr for me and 200/hr for the crane, if I'm done in 5 hours for 450, I'm only bringing in 1250 on the job, giving a G to the crane company, then we have to line up another job for the day.

No crane and we're set for the day still making 250/hr. No extra stress if something takes a bit longer or something breaks down. No calling/scheduling with crane company. No worrying if the stick will reach the last tree. etc.

I agree that I'd be able to bid more competitively, but I am fortunate to never be short on work.

Just try hiring a crane for a day, and you will see what we mean with the less effort part. Until you work with one you don't appreciate the potential that can be realized with a crane. To see a 4K pick floating away from you from a deck tree is pure bliss when you consider the alternative...

We have a full size grapple truck, a track mini, and a four man crew, and we shoot for 1K per hour onsite time. We dont always get it, but thats what we shoot for. With 1 guy in the tree or man-lift, 3 guys with a grapple truck and a mini can keep up with steady 3-4K pics going out. I will add that any crane job that we can use our lift on goes considerably faster.

Also,telling the client that you are using a crane and not charging extra for it can be an added perk that helps you win these type of jobs.

 

[Sfoppema]

Just try hiring a crane for a day, and you will see what we mean with the less effort part. Until you work with one you don't appreciate the potential that can be realized with a crane. To see a 4K pick floating away from you from a deck tree is pure bliss when you consider the alternative...

We have a full size grapple truck, a track mini, and a four man crew, and we shoot for 1K per hour onsite time. We dont always get it, but thats what we shoot for. With 1 guy in the tree or man-lift, 3 guys with a grapple truck and a mini can keep up with steady 3-4K pics going out. I will add that any crane job that we can use our lift on goes considerably faster.

Also,telling the client that you are using a crane and not charging extra for it can be an added perk that helps you win these type of jobs.

Sounds like you are doing it up right. Have my eye on the kboom. That will be the next move, but want to save some dough first and not rush it.....

I have hired cranes before and understand the convenience. I just want to make sure I get some $$ for hiring one. I'd rather stay in the backyard where the cranes don't want to go. Get good money there considering my overhead. I'll do the crane stuff, but want to get paid for it. Don't want to hire just for convenience. I'd sooner recommend a different company if I wasn't set up well for the job and couldn't make extra by hiring a crane.

 

[owScott]

I am a little confused by the price breakdown here, but I think I can get the gist of what you are saying. I agree that I'd rather make money working easy than hard. We have two minis a dw 1050 and 650, so we're not really dragging brush or rolling logs. That's a real moral killer....

Unless the job would be stupid to do without a crane, I wouldn't hire one. And in that event, I'd probably just refer the customer to a company that I'm friendly with that has a crane. I'd rather stay in my lane and prefer the backyard stuff and use the minis where other companies would prefer the easier access crane/bucket work. They'll refer customers to me instead of screwing around climbing in a backyard where they'd prefer to be on the hook.

I wouldn't rent one just to save my back. Still young, probably change my opinion on that eventually. I've got some jobs priced high that I'm waiting to hear back on that I was thinking of using a crane for. We'll see how it works out!

I appreciate the input!

Sorry if the breakdown was confusing.
generally most big backyard trees
$1000 crane
$800 labor
$1500 for me
$200 wood disposal
total $3500
easy day everyone goes home early paid for 8hours. Same tree backyard same money, $3500. I make $1000 more. Everyone works 3x harder and all day. I will do big backyard take downs that you cant crane, for sure, but if i can crane it I am happy with $1500 easy money versus $2500 breaking ass. I get what you are saying, you are willining to work alot harder for more money, fair enough. Why give away the, IMO, easy money crane jobs. Dont get me wrong i do plenty of backyard removals without a crane but only if i cant get a crane to it. Not saying there is a wrong or right way to go about it. Good to constantly evaluate how we do business its how we improve. Just my take, profit to effort ratio.

 

[Sfoppema]

Since I started this conversation I've done maybe 8 days with a local crane company that I've really enjoyed working with. I really like that they have a 30t boom truck, 45t, 60t, and 110t. They also have a 300t, but I would be surprised if this is ever used for tree work. Had the owner come out and look at a job that we ended up doing with the 110t crane, which I was worried about in the weeks leading up because I wasn't sure if we were going to squeeze it in a long day. If we didn't get it done in even a 12 hour day I would be sunk. I was pretty sure we could bang it out in less than 10 hours but the mind wanders, especially being relatively new working with cranes.

Got a bunch of photos. Really was a perfect day. Took one hour to set up the crane, but it only was set up once, right in the driveway (was also worried about that, but everything worked mint no cracks). There were wires on the road, but enough room to lay down whole trees (most were skinny). Only issue was a dead vehicle that was parked on the side of the road that the neighbor could not move. Was a truck with a plow that was down. Couldn't believe it. We were able to work around it.

 

[Sfoppema]

All done in exactly 8 hours. My normal crew consists of myself and my two ground guys, brand new 6.2 ford gas bandit 18xp, and ditchwitch sk1050 and two late 90's international dt444e relatively small chip trucks. For this job, I subbed in a climber for $450 to do the slinging and cutting so that I could help out with ground management. Most of the crane work was easy. The pines in the back and the super dead one were a little funky, but once we got into the row of hemlocks it was smooth sailing.

Filled chip truck 9 times, and had one soft load of logs. I hire a log truck to move all my wood, he came and picked up and disposed of for $250 (his truck holds approximately 6-7 cords). Luckily had a dairy farm approximately half a mile away that took all the chips, so we weren't driving very far.

I have a broom on the mini skid, so after every pick, we'd try to get everything pretty much cleaned up and shoveled into the truck. I've discovered that, if understaffed, you fall behind on the little shit cleanup and have to spend forever messing around with it at the end. One guy was pretty much just swapping the chip trucks and driving to dump most of the day.

I think that it was a little ridiculous to attempt such a job with the gear that we had available, which made it feel extra awesome when we were all done.

 

[Sfoppema]

110t for the day was - $2500
subbed climber - $450
log truck sub - $250
=$3200 in sub costs for the day.

Any guesses on price for the job?


boom angle was at 24 degrees at one point, still good for like 3000 or something at 120 feet. Never worked with anything bigger than a 60t and even that amazes me.

 

[Sfoppema]

Here is a better view of the dead plow truck that we had to work around the entire time. little dead end neighborhood so we pretty much took over the street

 

[Reach]

110t for the day was - $2500
subbed climber - $450
log truck sub - $250
=$3200 in sub costs for the day.

Any guesses on price for the job?


boom angle was at 24 degrees at one point, still good for like 3000 or something at 120 feet. Never worked with anything bigger than a 60t and even that amazes me.

How many trees did you remove in total? It looks like we would have done it in two days with a 40 ton sitting in the back yard, probably about the same total crane cost. $7-8k total, but that’s just a guess without a tree count.

 

[Sfoppema]

How many trees did you remove in total? It looks like we would have done it in two days with a 40 ton sitting in the back yard, probably about the same total crane cost. $7-8k total, but that’s just a guess without a tree count.

I am not sure about how many trees total. The first three photos show the trees that were removed and the fourth shows the main section of trees after they were removed. The first photo of the dead tree is taken from the road, the trees in the second photo are to the right of the dead tree, the third photo is taken from the street looking at the same trees as the 2nd photo 4th photo is an after picture taken from the same spot as the 3rd. Kind of hard to see but the back yard is fenced in and the septic tanks and leach field take up the entire back yard. The row of hemlocks is basically on the property line, and the neighbor apparently did not want anything driven on their property. I could be wrong, but I really don't think it would have been possible to get your money's worth out of a 40t on this particular job.

I could have climbed, rigged, matted, and used the mini to get through the fence, but it would have been more expensive, I think. Pretty spot on though we did it for $7500

 

[Sfoppema]

The first photo of the dead tree is taken from the road, the trees in the second photo are to the right of the dead tree

**The trees in the second photo are to the left of the dead tree. Oops!

 

[Sfoppema]

Everything can be seen from the photos, just have to look a few times. to see the before, during, and after. Basically a row of hemlocks on the left side of the house, bigger pines and some smaller trees lining the back yard, and the big dead pine on the right/back side of the property.

 

[owScott]

Everything can be seen from the photos, just have to look a few times. to see the before, during, and after. Basically a row of hemlocks on the left side of the house, bigger pines and some smaller trees lining the back yard, and the big dead pine on the right/back side of the property.

Looks like a profitable day for you by looking at the numbers. Cranes are expensive but labor can be more for multible days and more exhaustion. Good management.

 

[Reach]

I am not sure about how many trees total. The first three photos show the trees that were removed and the fourth shows the main section of trees after they were removed. The first photo of the dead tree is taken from the road, the trees in the second photo are to the right of the dead tree, the third photo is taken from the street looking at the same trees as the 2nd photo 4th photo is an after picture taken from the same spot as the 3rd. Kind of hard to see but the back yard is fenced in and the septic tanks and leach field take up the entire back yard. The row of hemlocks is basically on the property line, and the neighbor apparently did not want anything driven on their property. I could be wrong, but I really don't think it would have been possible to get your money's worth out of a 40t on this particular job.

I could have climbed, rigged, matted, and used the mini to get through the fence, but it would have been more expensive, I think. Pretty spot on though we did it for $7500

I did not see the fence there, that would add a challenge. We likely would have removed a section or two if possible to get through, but it’s hard to say for sure without actually looking at it in person.

We do an amazing amount of work with a 40 ton; we are so accustomed to it at this point we know it’s limitations well and it’s rare it won’t do the job. If not though, we have a local company that goes up to a 70 ton we can call. Or if we need something crazy, there’s a company local with a 700 ton all-terrain. Set that up and pick every tree in the neighborhood from one spot!

 

[Sfoppema]

Looks like a profitable day for you by looking at the numbers. Cranes are expensive but labor can be more for multible days and more exhaustion. Good management.

Yes, it was probably one of the more profitable days ever. The homeowner got two other quotes and we were actually the cheapest. Definitely worth renting the crane. Wouldn't have been able to do it without the larger machine. As mentioned, if we had to get that all out just climbing and using the mini my quote would have probably ended up higher. Felt pretty great when it was all finished up.

 

[Sfoppema]

I did not see the fence there, that would add a challenge. We likely would have removed a section or two if possible to get through, but it’s hard to say for sure without actually looking at it in person.

We do an amazing amount of work with a 40 ton; we are so accustomed to it at this point we know it’s limitations well and it’s rare it won’t do the job. If not though, we have a local company that goes up to a 70 ton we can call. Or if we need something crazy, there’s a company local with a 700 ton all-terrain. Set that up and pick every tree in the neighborhood from one spot!

It would have been tricky. Hard to tell from photos. I'm still new to messing with cranes, so I'm sure you have a better eye for what can be done with what than I. If I'm not sure, the guy who owns the crane company will meet me at the job to look. Would be a big mistake to quote based on incorrect information on how far the machine can reach/capacity at that distance.

Definitely not an average day/take for my small company. Moral was high playing in the big leagues for the day.

 

[Reach]

It would have been tricky. Hard to tell from photos. I'm still new to messing with cranes, so I'm sure you have a better eye for what can be done with what than I. If I'm not sure, the guy who owns the crane company will meet me at the job to look. Would be a big mistake to quote based on incorrect information on how far the machine can reach/capacity at that distance.

Definitely not an average day/take for my small company. Moral was high playing in the big leagues for the day.

It’s always hard to tell from photos, so I will not second guess your decision from here! It would definitely be a big mistake to quote based on a crane that was too small, that adds far too much time and work to a project!

It sure does feel good to take on a project like that and come in so far under budget, that’s great! Keep it up!

 

[ROYCE]

Looks like you got it all figured out in the end. It almost always makes sense to bring a crane in on the big jobs. Just be careful...or you'll end up owning one

 

[colb]

As someone said above, get the crane in and out as fast as possible...dont make him sit around and wait for you (between picks, at the end, etc). I can't recall any 4k type job where I had the crane there for a full 8 hours...taking half my money. Most single tree jobs, the crane is leaving by lunch. On multiple trees (or jobs), sometimes the debris sit till he leaves...clean up what we can but once he done picking on one tree we move on.

Liability wise - once it is fully connected/controled by him and the crane, it is all on him and his insurance.

Around here a 40ton stick is around $150 an hour. 250 sounds high...especially if your rate is only around 80 per man.

I have more of problem with contract climbers taking half my money, with no major overhead.

My 40t rate is $185, minimum 4 hours. 80t rate is $225. I believe there is a company with lower rates, but my sub came with good recommendations so I pay up.

 

[southsoundtree]

50t here, $300/hour, 4 hour min, portal to portal.
22t, $200/hour, portal to portal, no minimum.

 

[Reach]

Wow, those cranes are expensive! We pay $145 for a 40 ton, $200 for a 100 ton, four hour minimum, but we have a crane a day or two a week usually so we never pay the minimums.