New OSHA Directive
- Thread starter TMW
- Start date
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...I can pass gas with the rest of y'all. Although it might temporarily give me some gratification, it doesn't do much more than that, except maybe annoy those nearby.
An invitation to anyone, (everyone) would like to post the verbiage that would work for the commercial arboriculture "limb" of the industry?...
[/ QUOTE ]
Have a look...
[/ QUOTE ]
Cute Nick.
[ QUOTE ]
...I can pass gas with the rest of y'all. Although it might temporarily give me some gratification, it doesn't do much more than that, except maybe annoy those nearby.
An invitation to anyone, (everyone) would like to post the verbiage that would work for the commercial arboriculture "limb" of the industry?...
[/ QUOTE ]
Have a look...
[/ QUOTE ]
Cute Nick.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Thanks for letting us know about this new OSHA directive Tim. Hopefully TCIA and our industry leaders can enlighten the gov. people as to why this would be counter productive to our working needs.
I too thought we were making progress with the OSHA people after the last workshop, but I'm sure that this "new" directive was already being circulated by OSHA long before our workshop.
When I told the crane company that I do work with about these new developments, they too said that they are not going to change a thing about the way they do tree work, especially when it comes to hoisting a climber and "piecing out" work.
I too thought we were making progress with the OSHA people after the last workshop, but I'm sure that this "new" directive was already being circulated by OSHA long before our workshop.
When I told the crane company that I do work with about these new developments, they too said that they are not going to change a thing about the way they do tree work, especially when it comes to hoisting a climber and "piecing out" work.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Setting our own standards, company by company, job by job, tree by tree doesn't make for any standard. That's the first problem. We are not the only ones with a "fluid work environment". Setting standards gives a basis from which all can work. Apply those standards to the specific situation is where interpretation of the standard begins and future amendment.
The way we have always worked? Every industry has evolved over time based on adaptation of new methods and practices that ensure more of us go home every night intact and in good health.
Has anyone taken the time to find out why there is a prohibition of hoisting personnel aloft on the hook? What has driven this ban?
I found it interesting the catalyst for the Z133.1 in 1968 was the efforts of a mother whose son died trimming trees. Are there still sons and daughters who die?
We are an evolving industry lets be the ones that lead change. That means working with OSHA to slowly institute the policies and practices that will enhance our workplace. If there is anyone that should understand slow change it is us!
The way we have always worked? Every industry has evolved over time based on adaptation of new methods and practices that ensure more of us go home every night intact and in good health.
Has anyone taken the time to find out why there is a prohibition of hoisting personnel aloft on the hook? What has driven this ban?
I found it interesting the catalyst for the Z133.1 in 1968 was the efforts of a mother whose son died trimming trees. Are there still sons and daughters who die?
We are an evolving industry lets be the ones that lead change. That means working with OSHA to slowly institute the policies and practices that will enhance our workplace. If there is anyone that should understand slow change it is us!
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
Nick, now if you could hack into the OSHA files and make that the "law", you'd be famous...
...er
...er
- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
So did OSHA just decide what was the best/safest way to carry out "logging" or "piecing" operations while sitting at a large, round table in an air conditioned board room?
Were any actual arborists consulted?
Good luck Tim, let us know if we can help in the fight! I'll put my name on almost anything these days....
Were any actual arborists consulted?
Good luck Tim, let us know if we can help in the fight! I'll put my name on almost anything these days....
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
Hasnt it been a no-no to be hoisted on the hook ? Thought you had to be tied into a shackle around the cable so as to not effect the opperation of the crane and viceversa
[/ QUOTE ]
Not true! Do a search, this has been discussed ad nauseum in the past two weeks.
NO crane manufacturer will allow you to tie in above the ball. It is a system they have designed to not have ANY weight above. Especially not 200-300lbs!!!
It is much safer IMO to be tied into a masterlink, and then lock the gate of the hook shut.
NEVER tie directly onto the hook!
Hasnt it been a no-no to be hoisted on the hook ? Thought you had to be tied into a shackle around the cable so as to not effect the opperation of the crane and viceversa
[/ QUOTE ]
Not true! Do a search, this has been discussed ad nauseum in the past two weeks.
NO crane manufacturer will allow you to tie in above the ball. It is a system they have designed to not have ANY weight above. Especially not 200-300lbs!!!
It is much safer IMO to be tied into a masterlink, and then lock the gate of the hook shut.
NEVER tie directly onto the hook!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is much safer IMO to be tied into a masterlink, and then lock the gate of the hook shut.
NEVER tie directly onto the hook!
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you say that? What's so special about a masterlink? And what terrible thing's gonna happen if you tie in above the ball. Just curious as I do BOTH all the time.
<font color="green">The TreeHouse</font>
[ QUOTE ]
It is much safer IMO to be tied into a masterlink, and then lock the gate of the hook shut.
NEVER tie directly onto the hook!
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you say that? What's so special about a masterlink? And what terrible thing's gonna happen if you tie in above the ball. Just curious as I do BOTH all the time.
<font color="green">The TreeHouse</font>
Response to Nick\'s comments
The following is from Peter Gerstenberger of the Tree Care Industry Association. It is his response after reading what Nick wrote. I am posting this with his permission:
"Nick IS on to something. It's called due process - where the affected party gets a say in the laws that regulate them. Unfortunately the way their procedures are set up, OSHA can circumvent due process when they write a directive. I and others have written reams of stuff like Nick wrote. It falls on deaf ears. "
The following is from Peter Gerstenberger of the Tree Care Industry Association. It is his response after reading what Nick wrote. I am posting this with his permission:
"Nick IS on to something. It's called due process - where the affected party gets a say in the laws that regulate them. Unfortunately the way their procedures are set up, OSHA can circumvent due process when they write a directive. I and others have written reams of stuff like Nick wrote. It falls on deaf ears. "
- Location
- Tha Dirty Bean
Re: Response to Nick\'s comments
Where do we send the letters?
Where do we send the letters?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: Response to Nick\'s comments
To your elected Senators and Congressman/woman. This is a Federal issue. Time to call in favors.
Maybe Peter G. would be able to give us an idea about how we can get the grass roots response going.
To your elected Senators and Congressman/woman. This is a Federal issue. Time to call in favors.
Maybe Peter G. would be able to give us an idea about how we can get the grass roots response going.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: Response to Nick\'s comments
Cool! I'm glad to hear that the hour I spent doing that wasn't just a comPLETE waste. It's neat to see that it's being looked at beyond the forum. I would like to go on record to say that I, by no means, consider that even a near-finished work that would be welcomed by everyone here. I just wanted to show that it wouldn't be hard for a person or a few tree-educated folks to get together and come up with something that would serve the purpose of protecting the average tree guy from a safety stand-point, yet leave us with something we can consider "workable."
Neat.
love
nick
Cool! I'm glad to hear that the hour I spent doing that wasn't just a comPLETE waste. It's neat to see that it's being looked at beyond the forum. I would like to go on record to say that I, by no means, consider that even a near-finished work that would be welcomed by everyone here. I just wanted to show that it wouldn't be hard for a person or a few tree-educated folks to get together and come up with something that would serve the purpose of protecting the average tree guy from a safety stand-point, yet leave us with something we can consider "workable."
Neat.
love
nick
- Location
- North of Boston
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
[ QUOTE ]
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Nick,
You've got an understanding of how the various ANSI standards evolve. Concensus between professionals who are familiar with the consequences is very important. Technocrats and bureaucrats understand how The System works but not how to incorporate change.
You've got an understanding of how the various ANSI standards evolve. Concensus between professionals who are familiar with the consequences is very important. Technocrats and bureaucrats understand how The System works but not how to incorporate change.
- Location
- Tha Dirty Bean
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Umm.....I'm willing to bet that he might know a thing or two about crane work.
[ QUOTE ]
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Umm.....I'm willing to bet that he might know a thing or two about crane work.
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Norm, on one of my crane operator's 23 ton crane, you can't tie in above the ball, as it spins when loaded and unloaded.....
It's perfectly safe, imo, and no different than tieing in above, if done the way he has it set up, which is the same as bostonbull does it....
[ QUOTE ]
I have said it a bunch but here goes.
I think being tied into the ball, not above it, is safer because thats the way the manufacturer of that ball says it should carry loads. If they designed it differently so that you could put the load/sling anywhere on the load line it would be different but they didn't. Plus this keeps you, and your line below the ball and all the spinning the ball naturally does. makes it much easier on the climber IMO.
Do a search I have said more, and more in depth on this subject alot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Norm, on one of my crane operator's 23 ton crane, you can't tie in above the ball, as it spins when loaded and unloaded.....
It's perfectly safe, imo, and no different than tieing in above, if done the way he has it set up, which is the same as bostonbull does it....
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